Continued Trump Administration Fallout

[Dill]

(05-12-2021, 07:50 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, for one having THREE principled GOP party members talking into a void is not change for the better. There were always three people doing that.

Change for the better would have been a total repudiation of Trump. Him losing by 15 percentage points overall, or even more, 20, 25, that would have been change. The EC map being predominantly blue. Governors and whole state parties speaking out and distancing themselves, splitting away, claiming how unbearable it is to be in a party that still worships Trump and scolds everyone who has the audacity to claim that Biden won legitimately and that storming the Capitol and erecting gallows to hang Mike Pence and whoever else is scary and bad. That's what is needed for change. Not someone talking on principle and getting booed and ousted for it.

What you got four years ago is Trump winning with a slim margin of I seem to remember 70.000 votes in some crucial states. Four years later, you have him losing by 45.000 votes in three crucial states, and that after those four years and with Corona in the background that would make reelection hard for anyone. At the same time Republicans won house seats. The election resulted in things being better in its end result, but only just. The needle moved on a tiny scale, all while Trump actually gained voters. He could easily be back and win again in 4 years, I see no reason why he wouldn't, and that is not sustainable change for the better. Imho it rather shows that the two parties are bound to take turns no matter what. Chtulhu and an army of darkness could lead one of the parties and this would be the case.

Some quick notes on the bolded: 

1. Actually there weren't always three people doing that. And more resistance is beginning to congeal into a movement.  More than 150 Republicans launch new political movement questioning Trump's role in GOP https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/13/politics/republican-political-movement-trump/index.html

2. You've set an impossibly high standard here. That's not a realistic measure of change, rather a fantasy.

3. Sure, bad handling of Corona virus, but for many Trump supporters, the drop in unemployment and continued gains in the Obama economy were a big plus. Not often, if every, a president loses under those conditions. but Trump managed it. And he managed to snatch defeat in Georgia from the jaws of victory. 

4. Trump gained voters because he was able to engage many who previously hadn't voted, ginning up fear of socialism and the like. But that was with him in the news and on twitter every day. We don't have that now. And it was before 1/6. You might have had your 15% loss had the election been held a day after that.  Now we have house Republicans who ran from the floor claiming that the insurrection was more like a "normal tourist visit" as the MSM juxtaposes images of the savage crowd chanting "hang Mike Pence."  That won't maintain the former numbers.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-january-6-hearing-lawmakers-clash/

There is more going on here than just taking turns. The parties are not symmetrical opposites. One is much less stable, having tremendous difficulty creating issue-based consensus. Apparent consenses on Wokeness issues (Save Seuss and Potatohead), are not really consenses about issues, but express floating anxieties whose only constant is affirmation of Trump attitude. 

(05-12-2021, 07:50 PM)hollodero Wrote: To a large part, one can see it here. I found exactly one person that actually got swayed (TigerTeeth). Eg. folks like Nately see Trump pretty much exactly as we do, yet he did not vote for the alternative the first time or the second time, which amounts to zero movement on his part. Not to pick him out, it seems to be the 50% of people's take, can't vote for either party anyway and nothing and no one could ever change that, so it does not matter. You really have little swing voters in your country. All is dug in, including the never-voters and third-party voters, the "truth" can be picked accordingly these days.

And since you asked what the GOP members will do that do not "really" believe the election was stolen; I fully believe that almost all know that. They just play their parts regardless for these are a bunch of completely spineless and honorless sycophants. This is not an exaggeration, just an accurate description of people like Graham and Kennedy and all the others, all of them, except Romney really (I know you found three in total, three!). Whoever can't lie with a straight face will be replaced and that's that. How you can see some kind of butterfly effect on that is beyond me, these people knew so many things better the last four years  and still lied and distorted, they will not unlearn how to do that and they will not have a change of heart. Why would they, it would be the end of their career.

5. How many forum members who voted for Hillary https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-january-6-hearing-lawmakers-clash/ a preference for Trump in 2020? 

6. The GOP non-believers I was referring to were the elected leaders in Congress, not the rank and file base.  The latter DO believe the election was stolen and the impeachment a witch hunt. MSM bias everywhere. Fake news.  To re-explain--the base is looking for "fake" leaders and traitors to weed out. All these non believers are very vulnerable, though in the case of most Senators, not in '22. When they are replaced by Marjorie Greenes and Matt Gaetz's, that resulting instability will push more "independents" Dem-ward.