06-08-2021, 07:01 PM
(06-08-2021, 06:22 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I agree that intention matters. While results also matter, if the intent is not malicious or ill-willed, the negative results can teach you not to repeat that mistake again, whatever it was.
Regarding Stop and Frisk, there was a study that found black and Hispanic people were stopped disproportionately, even after controlling for precinct variability and race-specific estimates of crime participation. Granted, this looks at statistical data on the precinct in which the stop occurred, so it doesn't account for the perception of crime participation but the statistical reality of it (I.E. a cop may be in a precinct that has a low rate of black crime, but still stop black people because of his perception that black people in his precinct are dangerous, for some reason). As the study says:
This isn't proof that the cops were acting with racist intentions because you can never truly know what a person is thinking, but I do think it is indicative of the general perceptions of the police force in the way in which the policy was carried out.
Here we get into a dangerous area. You and I can discuss this like adults, but others will read nefarious intent into this discussion. To start this discussion, let's get the ethnic breakdown of New York City, the setting for the study in your link. We'll use 2019 as that is the last "normal" year on record.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/newyorkcitynewyork?
White alone: 32.1%
Black alone: 24.3%
Native American: 0.4%
Asian alone: 14.1%
Pacific Islander: 0.1%
Hispanic: 29.1%
Now, let's look at the crime statistics for the same year.
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/year-end-2019-enforcement-report.pdf
Murder by arrestee:
Black: 58%
Hispanic: 35.2%
White: 3.3%
Asian/PI: 3%
Rape by arrestee:
Black: 40.7%
Hispanic: 45.4%
White: 6.7%
Asian/PI: 7%
Robbery:
Black: 59.4%
Hispanic: 35.2%
White: 5.2%
Asian/PI: 3.2%
Felony Assault:
Black: 51.8%
Hispanic: 33.1%
White: 8.3%
Asian/PI: 6.4%
Shootings:
Black: 71.6%
Hispanic: 24.1%
White: 2.7%
Asian/PI: 1.5%
Firearms arrests:
Black: 70.9%
Hispanic: 23.1%
White: 4.3%
Asian/PI: 1.6%
Now, armed with these numbers, where would you focus your efforts if you were implementing stop and frisk? You do see some extremely disproportionate numbers in these crime statistics, yes? Stop and Frisk is attempt to implement the hardest type of policing, proactive. I can tell you that I, personally, have stopped crime by nothing people about to engage in it by their body language and other factors. I am sure there are some that would label my suspicions, although proven correct, to be motivated by "problematic" factors. Of course it's an easy bridge to cross, for some at least, to go from reasonable suspicion to, "hey what is that black kid doing here?" This is where the practice falls apart and opens itself up to attack.
Quote:As far as Democrats causing a rise in crime, I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'd have to know more before I could speak on that. And, regarding the southern border, I think Biden is perceived to be "Softer" on immigrants than Trump was (which was, frankly, inevitable once Trump left office, because no president before him ever opined about shooting illegal border crossers, to my knowledge), which likely caused at least a portion of this surge, as the migrants indicated when interviewed. I also think COVID caused a backlog of migrants who potentially would have come regardless of who was president.
Democrats have caused a rise in crime by buying into defunding the police. By electing DA's who are soft on crime (see Philly, Portland, San Francisco, St. Louis, Chicago and Los Angeles). By creating an atmosphere in which law enforcement is bad, and systemically racist, while criminals are just victims.
By publicly stating we should abolish the police and incarceration.
https://news.yahoo.com/rashida-tlaib-calls-no-more-221355507.html
By defending or downplaying riots and helping raise bail money for rioters.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/03/kamala-harris-tweeted-support-bail-fund-money-didnt-just-assist-protestors/
Don't take my word for it, just look at the rising crime rates in pretty much every city in the nation.
Quote:With that said, honestly, even if Biden's policies were the sole reason for the increase in migrant crossers, I still think it's the right thing to do to treat these people better than they were treated by Trump. In many cases, I personally hoped we would have gone further in some regards. If that means more come, then I wouldn't call that an unintended or unforeseen consequence. I see it more as a predictable result that people voting for Biden (and Biden himself) hopefully foresaw and accepted.
Sure, but you're basically conceding the point I'm making.
