How to separate "talent" from "coaching"

[Shake n Blake]

(09-08-2021, 02:16 AM)tms Wrote: Meh I appreciate the effort but this analogy is not apt. Let's keep it to football. It's apples and oranges otherwise. The NBA is a superstar league. 5 players on the court at a time, with the cream of the crop playing 80% of the game and dominating play. Football is 11 v 11 with 3 distinct phases, each player with his own niche, 53-man rosters in total, and far more moving parts. It's historically accepted in basketball that one player can change a team. Nobody ever wondered whether prime Lebron could singlehandedly make his teams competitive in CLE > MIA > CLE > LAL- or singlehandedly leave them in tatters by walking away- because that's what NBA superstars do. It's not so simple in the NFL for all the above reasons and more.   

In fact, the original point was precisely that debate: whether Brady could replicate his football success without Belichick. Not only did he prove that he could, but he didn't even need to join a proven contender to do it. We can argue about how close the Bucs really were until we're blue in the face, but that's pure speculation. The results are clear. Roughly the same crew that had won 7 games the year before (and 17 over the previous 3) promptly became a freaking Super Bowl winner (something we have NEVER done) by adding just one major piece.

It's football, not basketball. It's Brady, not Lebron. Yet he managed to do it anyway... and at 43 years old to boot. It is remarkable.

LeBron could make them "competitive" single handedly...not be championship contenders (which they were) single handedly. The analogy fits because I'm comparing 2 very smart legends going to good situations.

You keep bringing up the win totals and losing culture as if that means anything. The Browns had an even worse losing culture...til they suddenly didn't.

Brady played a (large) role, but to suggest he took a "terrible" team to a championship all by his lonesome is asinine. If that's the case, Brady should have 20 rings. Fact is, no player in any sport has ever won a championship without considerable help.