09-11-2021, 09:04 PM
(09-11-2021, 08:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You're making an argument against a point I did not make. I am not saying the cluster of cells inside her is her body. I am saying her body is her body, and she has the right to autonomy over it.
I agree. Which is why I'm not for putting a cutoff on it.
I'm aware you don't have to be a citizen to have rights, though some do require citizenship. However, all rights enumerated are expressed as being for a person. Do the unborn have a name, birthdate, SSN or other ID number? The whole crux of the abortion debate is personhood, but that isn't the way the argument gets framed most of the time. When does a person become a person? The reason this is important is because until the unborn is a person, they have no individual human rights. They have no rights to their own life, let alone that of their host. It is because of this that the person carrying the unborn should have complete autonomy over their own body in this instance.
The issue is that our law is inconsistent on the issue of personhood for the unborn, and it needs to be rectified. Unfortunately, there are many opinions on it and it is a very old philosophical question. Some people claim that personhood starts at fertilization, others at birth, and some say somewhere in-between. According to Jewish law, it is a person at birth. Catholics try to push conception. Islam says 120 days. And then, of course, there are many other different ways to measure it.
Anyway, I go with birth. I do this because I'm a bureaucrat. You can't claim tax credits until birth. You can't get an SSN until birth. They don't issue a birth certificate until, well, birth. These are things that mark personhood with the government and that is what I go with.
I am not callous about it. I seek to reduce abortions as much as possible. However, I want to find ways to prevent the desire some have to seek abortions. Ready access to affordable family planning services. Paid maternity and paternity leave that is actually meaningful. Significant efforts to make childcare more affordable. Universal basic income. Etc. Etc. These policies will do far more to reduce the number of abortions in this country than outlawing the practice ever would.
I'm trying to take care of the people of this country, not push my morality on them. My personal views on the morality of abortion are not expressed in my political opinions.
I could not have said the last two paragraphs, better. Thats pretty spot on to where I am with the whole abortion thing.
One thing that I am trying to understand, and I know a lot of people absolutely believe this. Remember when Trump said "at 9 months they can just rip the baby out if they don't want it"? I remember him saying something like that, so I could be a little off on the wording and context. But I know a lot of pro lifers that believe that the mother just decides at 9 months she doesn't want it, and they just pull the baby out and dismember it. Lol. They believe its just doctors murdering babies.
Anyway....why do they believe that? Has something happened in which a doctor and a patient did this? Was there a clinic that was doing these types of practices? What am I not seeing? (Question isn't just for you Bels. I'm really curious lol)
I used to be jmccracky. Or Cracky for short.
