12-16-2021, 12:43 PM
(12-16-2021, 12:16 PM)hollodero Wrote: Fair enough. As stated too many times, I also don't see them as equivalent. I don't know Hayes as much (except that you spelled him wrong), but Maddow, sure, she does some good journalism. That doesn't mean she isn't a hack, which she absolutely is. The guest list alone is a giveaway, and how she interviews them. The only ones that could be faced with a tough question are outsiders like Andrew Yang. When Harris, Hillary etc. are on, it's a love fest that is not news, but a liberal talk show. And the same goes for most others.
AS I said, CNN maybe not as much, though folks ike Don Lemon are definitely partisan hacks. A main indicator, again, are the guests. But they also shed a certain perspective on current events, usually the "liberals got it right, non-liberals are backwards" trope. Extremes are inviting Cohen all the time to topics he has no knowledge about, but makes a buck to be snarky and anti-Trump. Or Avenatti that got passed around and worshipped and declared a potential presidential candidate and whatnot. Or Mary Trump giving unqualifieg psych evaluations. Especially awful, imho, are the one after Maddow (O'Donnell) or Joy Reed. Whre regularly people claim whings like black people getting hunted down on the streets like animals and things like that, that are definitely meant to steer the audience towards believing police is racist as a whole and other conclusions that are not so much factual as they are polemic. In the end, conservatives are the enemy and the democrats are the path to salvation, that message is not really veiled.
EG. Joy Reed, imho the worst of all, called Ron Johnsen "way of Moscow", and this is too much to claim without evidence, even though that guy sure is an idiot. Or posts pictures of a 2019 beach in Miami to slam Florida for breaking Covid rules. Someone said the repulicans subverted the 2000 election, which is a spin. Others speculate a lot about "maybe there was wrongdoing, I just ask questions", even Maddow does that all the time without hard proof, especialy with Russia connections. They prejudge thingsa like the Rittenhouse incident or jump on things like this MAGA guy smirking at a native and declare it a big deal. I heard rumors about Trump hiring black people for his rallies, given to me by MSNBC quite some times without any proof whatsoever again, but it feels right, doesn't it, so one can say it. This list could go on for a long long time. But my only real proof would be to ask you to watch their programs regularly for a day or two (which I did for some time). If you cannot see what I mean at all, then there's little I can say anyway. To me it's quite apparent, in matters large and small. MSNBC is in may ways to the democratic party what FOX is to the republican party, albeit, I say it again, without some of the FOX extremes.
That's not really a fair question. I didn't say that addressing FOX misinformation is the thing that makes them bad. Loyalty and partisanship is, and the polemic and the always liberal-leaning interpretation of events etc. Of course calling FOX out for belittling the insurrection attempt etc etc is not among those things.
Sure, on MSNBC almost all of them I know, of course to different extents. Names I already named are O'Donnell, Reed, Lemon, Mika Brz... whatever possibly; of course I wouldn't know all of the hosts. If you tell me somewone like Katy Tur is ok, then I wouldn't know any better.
Sure, there are some that aren't that bad. Like Wallace on FOX. I'd say quite some CNN hosts aren't that bad, I wanna say Anderson Cooper? But I don't know them as well, and neither do I know he Sunday people, maybe they do not deserve my critizism. On MSNBC, hm. Yeah, some I find bearable, but I'm hard pressed to think of anyone that is not clearly a liberal putting a spin on things. Maybe Joe Scarborough (though he is unbearable in his own rights). Or the guy on MTP, I find him tolerable.
Sure, my standard are possibly European news. And my country is way less perfect that maybe Germany (lots of political influence still), but there's hardly a current anchor that I can identify with a certain political party or a certain political leaning here. Imho, that's how actual news should be. No favors, no moderation already clearly showing what the opinion of the network is, hard questions for everyone. They still can call a lie a lie and given the current state, they still could paint the Republican party on the brink of becoming subversive and anti-democratic.
For sure, we have somewhat transparent press subsidies and hence the news are not so much made for profit. Which I guess makes a lot of differeence. FOX or MSNBC has to serve its audience and give them what they want.
Yeah again and for the last time, I am not doing that. I'm just not going as far as to declare CNN or MSNBC immune from critizism just because they are the counterpart to the evil FOX network.
Bels, as a liberal and American, called them all a cancer too. It's not just me seeing it pretty much that way.
This is an excellent post. I wholeheartedly agree that Fox was, by far, the most partisan actor among the major news networks until rather recently. But MSNBC and CNN have really decided to give them a run for their money. Ironically, this really started with Trump lambasting them, usually unfairly. It really does seem like some news agencies, and definitely some "reporters" and pundits, took that personally and, here's the irony part, they actually became what Trump was describing, albeit to a lesser degree in most cases. There are many, and we have several on this board, who refuse to acknowledge this and seem stuck in the "Fox News bad" paradigm.
I watch a lot of news media, from several sources, and Fox's coverage of the Rittenhouse trial, as one example, was light years better from a journalism standard, than any of their contemporaries. All of the channels had their own stated position on this trial, no not officially, but obviously from the content of their pundits on the subject, but Fox had, by far, the best fact based coverage of the trial.
You are spot on about Joy Reid, btw, I absolutely loathe her. She's absolutely a bigoted homophobe and the content of her show makes me strongly suspect she harbors a lot of racist beliefs just bubbling under the surface. That's certainly my opinion, but it's not solely based on opinion.
