What’s worse for America

[BmorePat87]

(02-02-2022, 08:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It wasn't a direct comparison, which I already know you are aware of.  But it is absolutely in line with the Dem position that makes everyone reliant on the government for the things they want.  You want pre-K?  We'll pay for it!  You want a college education?  We'll pay for it!  At some point we have to draw the line at what education is "optional" versus what is required.  For a very, very long time we had that figured out, but then the Dems found a new way to lure in voters by offering free things that will be paid for by others. 

You say that it's not a direct comparison, and yet you repeat it here as if it's even remotely similar. It's not. 

It's arguably a necessary educational program for all children, an argument that cannot be made for college. Balking at any suggestion of reforms that expand the educational programs of our public school system by saying that it's the same as wanting to pay for college just isn't a remotely rational response, and it also ignores the academic scholarship out there that points to the significant savings and economic benefits to implementing both public pre school and pre-k programs, paying for itself and producing more economic gains over 10 and 35 year projections. 

Quote:I will, as I stated above, again direct you to my point being about teachers in CA.  I am not familiar with the situation in other states, but I absolutely stand by my comments as it pertains to CA.


And I would support you in fighting against this.  But you live in Maryland, a deep blue state.  Why are you experiencing such a situation if the GOP is the one to blame?

I didn't say the GOP was to blame for low teacher pay, and the data is undeniable that education is an underpaid profession. My state recently passed a pretty significant education bill that focuses on fixing that in Maryland, along a series of other investments in education.

While you may see high California's standing as having some of the highest wages in the country as evidence against this, a study by the EPI in 2019, found that the wage penalty for California teachers was over 16%, only about 5% less than the national average for educators (and a lot more than us in MD). The national benefit advantage for teachers was roughly 8%. Whatever the California benefit advantage may be, they're still underpaid compared to comparably educated professionals. 

That's just the data talking, not conjecture. 

Quote:Most of that tweet was vague and silly.  As for your point, I think the GOP's disdain for educators, as a whole, comes from their equally strident disdain for the GOP, especially at the college level.  When I was in school I literally had one teacher whose politics I was aware of.  It was my 8th grade English teacher who broadcast to the class her extreme left leaning positions.  She even called my father a baby killer, in class, when she learned he had served two tours in Vietnam.  Now, I certainly don't lump all educators into her category.  But I absolutely see, from working with schools and helping with my nephews, that broadcasting political opinions has become much more prevalent in the public school setting.  I had some amazing teachers in my life.  My 11th-12th grade Biology teacher (Biology then AP Biology) had a huge influence on me and prepared me for college more than any other teacher I had.  My 10th and 12th grade English teacher as well as my 11th grade Chemistry teacher and my 12th grade Civics teacher, they all had a huge influence on me.  Also, I didn't know a damned thing about their politics or personal opinions.  I am absolutely not hostile to educators or their significant impact on young lives.  I am, however, very cognizant of how the climate in public schools has changed of late.  

I can't speak for any teacher but myself. I would imagine that the incidents of openly partisan and unprofessional teachers is not nearly as high as anecdotal evidence would suggest, given the reality that for every teacher someone may point to as being openly partisan, there are dozens of teachers who have taught them that are not mentioned. That's conjecture on my part, though, and there's no data to suggest one way or the other, but it is a rational conclusion.

But there is a lot of openly hostile rhetoric being used by conservatives towards educators, and being blamed for suicides for not working overtime for free is an example of that. 

Quote:If teachers are under paid in some states I hope that changes, sincerely.  But I do not think the states should be paying for optional education like preschool or college.  If you disagree, that's fine, but I don't think it's being hostile to the teaching profession to say so.

I never said that was hostility. I said that someone could argue against the benefits of Pre-K rather than dismissing it as the same as wanting free college. I then said that the GOP is openly hostile towards teachers.