There are only like two players left from the Marvin Lewis era...

[Shake n Blake]

(02-04-2022, 12:20 AM)tms Wrote: Yeah, we can go back and forth on the chicken or the egg. It's tough to say which is which and I believe it's some combination. Obviously if the team is garbage there's no hope regardless. I'm not really talking about those cases. More the seismic impact that a generational player can have on your team to enable them form a whole greater than the sum of the parts. 

I wouldn't get too close to those examples, either, they were just the first ones that came to mind. The fact is that Denver and Tampa took enormous leaps with those players. Not from ground zero, but enormous leaps nonetheless. It works the other way too. It's no different than New Orleans dropping from 12-4 to 9-8 their first season without Brees, Pats from 12-4 to 7-9 without Brady, SF from 12-4 to 4-12 without Young, Denver from 14-2 to 6-10 without Elway, etc. Quarterback is clearly a position that has an exponential effect across the board, which makes it difficult to isolate why and how other positions/departments are performing how they are. You can't grade any of them in a vacuum, at least not to the same extent.

A good quote is one I heard from Hubbard just now in the interview in the other thread:

"I think the thing you see with our team is that the defense plays so hard at all times because we have full faith that whenever Joe gets the ball, he can get us back into the game. So we literally never quit or question that if we keep getting stops, Joe can bring us back in the game." 

In other words, they never quit for reasons that have nothing to do with talent, drafting or coaching. In fact for reasons that have nothing even to do with them. Just Joe Burrow. Now whether he's exaggerating or not, we can't say for sure. But it's still pretty powerful.

I don't see why there should be any confusion. Doesn't seem all that complicated to me. If you just look at team records without any context, sure you'll get confused...but with the context I added on my last post in reference to the Bucs and Broncos, it's easy to see that they were exceptionally talented teams with dire needs at QB that were then filled by Hall or Famers.

Again, Peyton and Brady knew what they were doing when they hand selected Denver and Tampa. It wasn't a mistake. They didn't go there due to the nice weather. They had the best setup of any of their options.

Elite QB + great roster = SB. Simple as that.
Elite QB + mediocre roster = Brady/Rodgers/Peyton losing in the playoffs, as has occurred many times.
Great roster + mediocre QB = similar disappointing result.

I'll leave it at that. We don't have to fully agree.