Expanding the SC aka The end of democracy

[hollodero]

(06-22-2022, 12:04 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Forgive me for not addressing your post point by point, as I feel the following will adequately address the vast majority of it.

The Framers were certainly not gods.  While forward thinkers, especially for their time, they could not, as no one could, create a perfect system that would survive the test of time unaltered.  The problem with your position, and it is shared by much of the left in this country, is that you can only erode, dismantle or dismiss so much of foundational principles before you destroy the fabric of the country itself.  Every day their is a new attack on the foundations of our nation.  We are "systemically and unalterably racist", our government was created by a bunch of "white men" like that's inherently an evil thing.  So much of what is proposed now is a supposed fix for the evils of the past, even when that is demonstrably not so.  You mention civil war above and the reason it looks like a possibility to some, maybe many, is because many Americans feel that their country, that they grew up in and love, is under attack.  And in many ways they are not wrong.  Trump is a reaction to this, a symptom, albeit the largest and most dangerous one to date.  When people feel attacked they will attack back.  When something people love and cherish is under attack, they will defend it.  

Nah I'm glad to bring answers back to reasonable length. But this stance is an example of where I can not really go along with you. In times where I see Trump actively trying to dismantle the fundamental principles of democracy I can not possibly just focus on the left destroying the fabric of the country. Trump is doing that. Say against the left what you want (I'm sure you do), but collectively they are not in favor of overthrowing elections and don't support a super PC dictator. Most are fierce patriots too and just want progress that's all.
And also I can not possibly blame the left for Trump either. I can blame a faulty system, but if you associate me calling the system faulty with the extremes on the left that want to demonize all whiteness, then I don't really know what to say. 

And saying racism is one of the not so great heritages of former times, well, I think that is in large parts just true; and addresing that, even if one thinks it isn't that much true or that the proposed fixes are wrong, is not attacking the fabric of the country. Notwithstanding that many of these "old white men" tropes are overdoing it and at times are flat-out racist as well, and that I also agree that racism gets mentioned too often, and that I can see the conviction terror by parts of the media and parts of the left spectrum. But that is zero excuse to go with the man that does not support a democratic system to begin with, the most fundamental fabric of the country. You can not defend a system you feel is under attack by overthrowing it completely. Not to mention that this of course further fuels all opposite extremes, and imho understandably so. All tired clichés are thoroughly fed if the other side indeed goes with someone like Trump. They don't look so tired on a Trump rallye really.

Of course, nothing I said was motivated by any of that, I was motivated by describing how inherently prone your system is to becoming a dictatorship. That is not even a left or right issue to begin with, it's just Trump and the GOP that are actually going there. But yeah, your response just confirms my darkest fears really. Saying yeah Trump is a wannabe dictator and all, but the entire left is so out of control, what can you do, it can only be option A or option B. That's where things stand. The US system imho does indeed not survive the test of time and this line of thinking contributes to it. Not that I blame you, of course, I blame the system. I just have less and less doubt about where this is headed.