07-13-2022, 04:26 PM
(07-12-2022, 11:21 PM)pally Wrote: What we need to remember is that very little of the "Chrisitan Nationalism" movement actually involves real Christianity. It is some sort of bastardized thing that uses God as a driving force but it is wrapped in a warped version of Christianity intermixed with a weird patriotism thing that is all ultimately a power grab for extremist ideas. It is an anti-democratic pro-authoritarian message that most Americans should be fighting against not for
In the Pew Research numbers I cited in the OP, 68% of all Christians surveyed thought that laws should be influenced at least somewhat by the Bible. That's a disturbing number and definitely more than just the extremists. While it's the hardcore Evangelical movement that is the driving force in terms of the desire for Christian Nationalism, there are far too many moderate Christians who seem to share the Evangelical idea of using the Bible to influence law and policy.
(07-12-2022, 10:39 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Just to address this part. That’s an assumption that our purpose here is to believe in God. That would be an odd purpose. If, as an exercise, you assume the existence of God then think of why we would be here. I think the major religions have confused it all for their own gain.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding; but are you stating that belief in God, by way of Jesus, isn't extremely important? That would seem to render John 3:16-18 rather useless.
(07-13-2022, 12:06 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Bingo: as I have been saying for a while now, religion (especially the Catholic Faith, as it is what I am most-familiar with), is inherently a FANTASTIC thing: there is a shit-ton of wisdom in the pages of the Bible (mainly Old Testament) and a bunch of lessons and morals are conveyed, that are UNIVERSAL, whether based in religion, nature, etc.
As difficult as it is for me, I will refrain from espousing my thoughts on the Catholic Church.
Quote:It's when assholes (ie: Americans that have destroyed and distorted the words in a book) insert their own selfish beliefs/interpretations and all that great stuff, to take advantage and manipulate people, is where religion gets a bad rap: that's not the fault of what the religion stands for, that's the fault of selfish human beings (and yes, I realise the hypocrisy of a religion created to control people, being an, "innocent thing," in this case).
There's no denying that everyone interprets the Biblical passages in their own way. Sometimes for very nefarious reasons. Sometimes for selfish reasons. Sometimes for innocuous reasons.
Quote:But of course, like *everything* on the planet, nothing is black and white when it comes to morals, laws (except laws of nature and science; those are infallible), thus a book, written by men, where things have been passed on verbally, should be taken contextually, a stance that Catholicism has taken since many years before I was born. When read contextually, the Bible is an awesome book, full of great stories, lots of wisdom and a huge cast of characters that reflect everyday humans that you come across in your daily life (I mean, maybe not Kings and leaders of nations, but you get my drift).
If you're stating the Bible should be viewed as simply a literary work, then I agree.
Quote:And yes, I am FULLY aware of the MANY serious and awful transgressions that members of the Catholic Church have done in the many centuries since the religion's inception... but again, these are men inserting their own selfish goals and desires and using a book as their reasoning; God or any other entity in the Canon did not explicitly state that the crusades were to happen, for example.
TL;DR: religion isn't bad, man is bad.
I'll leave this one alone as well.
Quote:Hence the need to take things contextually; Samson (if he did exist) did NOT push down two pillars and crushed all of the Philistines; it's an allegorical way of teaching you that if you do stupid shit and allow demons (ie: Delilah) to overcome you, it can be your ruin and downfall and that redemption may come at the cost of your life.
I understand what you're trying to say, but at the same time, we must acknowledge that for any instance of meaningful allegory, there is also an utterly absurd or disturbing instruction meant to be taken very literally.
Quote:Or the Ark; whether or not EVERY creature was put on and all that jazz (which we know is kinda, almost impossible), the story is clearly meant to state the same thing as above: if things are craptastic and there's no way of undoing all of the shit that has happened, one way to right everything is to start anew: FLOOD your current life and WASH AWAY all of the bad shit and then once you have weathered the fallout from doing it, you should come out on the other side with a fresh, new perspective on things and be able to start anew.
Context, meaning, morals; that's what the Bible should be read as, not followed word for word and adhered to, word for word.
This is part of the problem. You could view the Noah's ark story as allegory. However, the means of "starting anew" required the extermination of every single human except for one chosen group. That seems an incredibly dangerous allegory.
