Arizona communities would 'collapse' without cheap prison labor, Corrections director

[hollodero]

(07-19-2022, 11:24 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Like most things the roots of this go way back.  Consider that the people who founded this nation were considered religious extremists in their home countries.  They had very strict views on crimes and their punishments.  This has never gone away and likely won't any time soon.  Because of this a prisoner in the US will generally serve a much longer sentence than their European counterpart.

Again, not to be controversial, but this seems to be in apparent contradiction to your stance that the country is too soft on criminals. That doesn't sound so soft.
Also, while this might explain a difference towards other western countries, the US not only beats out Europe, but every country in the world. Including the real authoritarian ones with draconian sentences for disobedience or disagreeing with leadership etc.

(07-19-2022, 11:24 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A very important question regarding the criminal justice system is why the black population accounts for such a large percentage of overall crime.  I know people wince when they hear that, but the numbers are there and they are frighteningly consistent.  Use the UCR for literally any year, here is 2019 (Also, note that for "white" the initial number includes Hispanics, who are often listed not as a race but as an ethnicity);

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-43


This, of course, leads us to the discussion of why this is the case. Systemic racism is certainly part of the issue, as is poverty and lack of opportunity.

I am pretty certain these are the major factors, overall. I understand it's not a wholesome explanation though. But I'd guess especially fighting powerty effectively would go a long way.
(Btw. I'd rather trust democrats over republicans on that one, but that's a sidenote)

(07-19-2022, 11:24 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: But it cannot explain all of it, because if those were the driving factors then you would see similar disproportions for Hispanics, who are only slightly over represented, and Native Americans, who are also over represented, but nothing close to the same degree.  And Asians are very much under represented.

Ah well. As for Hispanics, I guess many of them are immigrants, more than black people for sure. Who are often less prone to crime than natural born citizens, that's the case here too. I guess it's because you'd risk not only sentencing, but being thrown out of the country. Also, those who immigrate, I'd wager, are usually not the rapists and murdereres Trump sees in them, that think raping and murdering is so much more fun in the US than in their home country. They rather are ambitious people that want to create something through hard work and not so much through crime.
Asians (and maybe also hispanics and native americans) possibly are faced with a little less prejudice as well, at least when it comes to crime. My impression would be that the stereotypical criminal for many people rather is a black person than an Asian person. So it might be that systemic racism hits blacks harder than the other groups.

Of course I could think of other explanations, but I usually have to delete comments of mine touching this hot iron. I come across as ignorant and slightly racist even to myself - and others - when talking about my thoughts about that. But I will say (and leave it this time) that I think the grim picture painted about the black experience in the US plays a part in it, a picture that is dystopian, often declaring it pretty much pointless to even try to achieve something as a poor black person. The system is so rigged against you and gives you no chance, that's what large parts of the media and popular culture seem to hammer home time and again, employers will harbor prejudice against you, police will beat you up, the man will hold you down in so many different ways. If I were to grow up with the constant affirmation that my race is a disadvantage I - not being a genius or particularly gifted - most likely can never overcome, I'd probably be quite hopeless too and possibly see no other way than to be part of a gang or selling drugs or going the unlawful way in some other manner.

And it apparently starts at a young age, as your figure shows. There might be a neglection factor, which is to be expected when so many adults are already in prison instead of home with their children. A sentiment that might put me in a position contrary to yours, as in I'd possibly advocate being somewhat soft on crime for this reason alone. A parent in prison puts the child on a path. In that and possibly other senses, high incarceration rates amongst a certain community imho have a self-enhancing effect.