Tulsi Gabbard: I’m leaving the Democratic Party

[Dill]

(11-06-2022, 05:05 AM)hollodero Wrote: 3. The current divisions have much more to do with 1) economic conditions--decades of flat wages amidst dramatically rising worker productivity, and workers aren't pocketing all that extra value they are creating (neoliberalism), 2) shrinking union membership, and the political socialization that went with such membership, 3) an economic elite with a long tradition of ruling through fear (of working masses, a black underclass, immigration, socialists from Europe, and Muslims straining to impose Sharia on us all), and 4) new communication technology which advantages 3 over traditional political debate/discussion subject to civil norms and standards of evidence. So that 3 elite is able to control the "narrative" about why the U.S. is going in the wrong direction--though their success also undermines their control, as millions believe the uncontrollable MJT and DJT speak their pain.

That's it? 1, 2, 3, 4, explanation done? Yeah I want to add 5) a two party system that kills the middle ground, forces everone to pick sides, divides even the news in left and right, turns people to messengers of talking points and designed controversies to get the wheel of disdain spinning, two sides that can't even listen to each other any more with any sense of earnesty, it's only about shooting holes in someone else's opinion, make him look as crazy, stupid and immoral as possible. An atmosphere where hateful messages can rise and truth isn't important and 6) a whole lot of other awful consequences of a dualistic system, like both parties being bought by big money and engaging in open bribery and then some. As stated, worth a thread sometimes. And of course 7) a whole lot of other things, you haven't even mentioned social media for example.

We widely agree on Tulsi though.

Your #7, social media, is already subsumed under my #4, where one would find Fox, Newsmax and Infowars. Your #6 is covered by my 1-3, I think. 

It's your #5 that we don't agree on. You seem to regard it as an important driver of division. But your "evidence," the "atmosphere where hateful messages an rise and truth isn't important," --which evokes horror in us equally--still looks to me attributable to the causes I've already enumerated.

You say "the two sides." But I don't think the division is driven by both sides. There is a Gingrich memo, but no Tip O'Neill memo.
https://able2know.org/topic/122842-1

And the point was to use abusive and distortive language to define Dem "enemies" REGARDLESS of the issue. Dems were ALWAYS to be described as "hypocrites" "corrupt" "traitors" and against "flag, family, child, jobs" be the issue debt limit, workplace equity, or a treaty with Mexico. Rush Limbaugh was already doing this on his radio program, but Gingrich embedded it in the party from top down, Washington outward. It metastasized in the Republican party, while Democrats who thought "We're now forced to do the same" were never able to attract Dem voters that way. 

Looks to me like the division arises elsewhere, but plays out in a two party system. 

And we disputed this previously, perhaps obliquely, when we disputed the degree to which "liberal" or MSM media are a mirror image of Fox/Newsmax et al. This was, if I remember, question of degree between us, but the center of my argument was that the right wing media are structurally different from the MSM. They generate and mass circulate untruth. 

The parties themselves reflect this decision. There is no Dem counterpart to the Big Lie. Because the Big lie raises tempers and creates argument still does not mean "both sides" are equally unable to listen to one another and only about shooting holes in someone else's opinion.