Tulsi Gabbard: I’m leaving the Democratic Party

[hollodero]

(11-07-2022, 12:44 PM)Dill Wrote: And that's the trick isn't it?  That's not so easy with these big umbrella parties. 

Then why does it work with your Republican party? Where's the big umbrella telling Trump his time is up and he's way too extreme for the more moderate wing. It doesn't necessarily happen that way, not even in a rich country like modern times US, even less so in a desperate country that is bound to go with the extremes since everything moderate failed.
That makes me wonder, you see for yourself that this big party umbrella in a strictly dual system is a myth, or say it existing under any circumstances is. Even if you put more distinct parties under one tent. At some point, the unsucccessful ones fall in line or get kicked out. And if only one prong is successful, then that's that.

But the debate is tough to lead, there's no evidence either way. I still stand by my hypothetical as described. And it's gonna be tough to convince me a two-party system would have stopped the rise of the authoritarians post WW1, especially since I see a modern day example of how that exact hope does not materialize. Election fraud claims, Capitol storm, Abortion bans and so on. Extreme positions that these days basically go unchallenged within the own ranks and within the own voter base. You think it would be much different if the GOP would demand forbidding the other party? I don't. If only the position remains consistent, it's still just a matter of time.

(11-07-2022, 12:44 PM)Dill Wrote: There have always been at least 20% of "devout followers" in the U.S. since the Civil War, often more, if by that you mean anti-democratic authoritarians. And Trump is not like Hitler, someone who dedicated his life to a long-term goals, single-mindedly following them to a terrible final solution decades later. 

Please don't even insinuate I compared Trump to Hitler, I did my best to avoid that impression.
But yes you always had this system in place, and it often failed you before. McCarthy era, Nixon era, to name a few. Agreed, you always had principled people in power standing up to them and undoing them in the end, but that's what it depends on, such people. It were those decent folks that put an end to things like this. The ballot boxes, not so much actually. They demand a swing back and forth no matter what.

(11-07-2022, 12:44 PM)Dill Wrote: Trump's authoritarians were ready made for him and fell into his lap. Where we disagree, possibly, is whether they were the product of a "system," or something more amorphous, growing more to historical and economic divisions between regions and classes now registering as identity threats.

I think it's both.