06-14-2023, 11:59 AM
(06-14-2023, 11:36 AM)Dill Wrote: Er, I WAS discussing the suppression of speech and violence on college campuses. That's why I quoted your post and bolded " How many left wing speakers have been attacked or prevented from speaking at college campuses? " You appear to have shifted the topic to "protests", which is not quite the same as "suppression of speech and violence." I mentioned "demons" to retrace our steps, how the discussion evolved. That's what we're still talking about.
No, I haven't shifted at all as they go hand in hand. To put a finer point on it, not all the protests involve physical violence, but all the violence occurred during a protest. As for suppression of speech, the same logic applies, just at a much higher rate of occurrence. I'll take your word in regard to mentioning the "demons" conversation, but I'll reiterate, it's not germane to this particular topic. Who is "worse" than the other in a general sense is irrelevant to a discussion of college campus protests.
Quote:The mention of twitter doesn't go "significantly off topic." It's just to contrast consequences. Being fired or not hired--on campus--because of political views is much more effective suppression of speech than a shaming tweet. The topic is still "demons" who suppress speech on campus. If I mention that a U.S. History teacher was not re-hired (along with many others) thanks to DeSantis' "reform" of Florida higher ed, I have not changed the subject from suppression of speech to U.S. History.
If you want to bring up people being fired, or not hired, at colleges for expressing opinions on Twitter we can absolutely include that. It will tilt very heavily in my favor, so you may want to rethink that.
Quote:Once again, I was responding to your "ultimate point": The ultimate point is, and what many people here are desperate to avoid confronting, is there is extreme bullshit going on on both ends of the ideological spectrum today. The only difference of substance is that one side is constantly excused by the mainstream and the other side is consistently demonized, see "domestic terrorist" parents at school board meetings again.
And once again it's not germane to a discussion about college campus protest. If you want to have a separate conversation about that then feel free to do so outside the context of this particular back and forth. I think you would agree that staying on topic is important to a clear exchange of ideas and information.
Quote:Were you "changing the subject" when you referred to "extreme bullshit going on at both ends of the political spectrum" which people are supposedly "desperate to avoid confronting"? Didn't sound like "bullshit" was confined to campus, especially when you reference school board meetings.
No, in that post I was not confining my statements to college campuses. So, no, that wasn't changing the subject. As stated above I'm happy to have the conversation as well, just not in the context of discussing speech suppression and violence on college campuses.
Quote:That's why I told you that tit for tat just obscures the larger picture and the greater threat. E.g., Republican Senators are now threatening to hold up confirmations because their Dear Leader has been indicted. Over 40% of the electorate think that indictment is politically motivated, not something Trump called down upon himself by breaking the law. They think he's above the law and people holding him accountable are the problem. That's why I'm "desperate to avoid confronting" a few scattered protests on some campus which dissipated as soon as Coulter or Yianapoulos or Shapiro left.
And you continue to change the subject. Again, if you want to have that discussion do so outside the exchange on college campus protests. Alternatively, you could admit the rather obvious fact that in this regard, and on this topic, the left is far more censorious and violent than the right. Doing so would not hurt an argument about this topic in other facets and it would allow us to move on to those other topics you're clearly keen on shifting the conversation to.
Quote:And I'm not "admitting the obvious" about suppression of speech on campus while Republicans are actually "reforming" higher ed by cutting whole programs and the people who teach them.
Ahh, a rather different kettle of fish here. I assume you're referring to Florida, but since you gave no specific example I'm left to just guess.
Quote:Finally, you've not avoided the Youtube problem by searching for protests on what you call "far left" news sites. That's not how you construct a data set on free speech suppression or protests or whatever, especially in the age of news algorithms.
Oh, are we conducting a peer reviewed study here, or are we bantering on an internet message board? If I was publishing you'd have a rock solid argument. As I am not, you do not. You made an argument that sensationalist stories make the news while less exciting content does not. You did so to justify the lack of news coverage around conservative college protests. I countered that, if any news site would cover right wing protests for click bait it would be the far left organizations. A search of a large number of those organizations revealed precisely one instance compared to numerous left wing protests. So, while this wouldn't suffice for a rigid academic study it is more than sufficient to illustrate a point on an internet message board. But please feel free to find the myriad other news articles about right wing college protests that you apparently believe exist somewhere, I would very much like to see them.
Quote:Driving across South Dakota right now, so I'll have to sort this out this evening.
Cool. My parents met at USD and got married there.
