Drag March "Coming for your children"

[hollodero]

(07-03-2023, 12:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You're running into European perception problems here.  What you just described is a clear violation of the 1sr Amendment.  

Oh wow, I want to expand on this a little bit. I can not see at all why this is a first amendment issue. I did not advocate throwing anyone in jail for stating an opinion or having a religion. What I was getting at is that flat earthers can not come to school and demand their kid is not taught about the earth being round. Am I wrong on that front? Can a holocaust denier demand his kid is not taught that it was real? Can a Christian demand his kid is taught the Bible instead of actual history, or that slavery was a positive or whatever it is they believe?
And that leads to sex ed too, at some point at least, leaving appropriate age aside for now. If someone wants his 15-year-old, sexually matured child to still believe that the stork brings the children and sexual desires mean shame and eternal hellfire then it seems to be quite appropriate to tell this child that this is BS, or else there's possible disaster looming.

(07-03-2023, 12:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: But then who decides what's in the child's best interests?  Parents are legally and financially responsible for their children.  You better have a rock solid reason for intruding on their autonomy when it comes to their children.  

Well, I don't know how rock solid this is, but despite these responsibilities children are certainly not their parents' property and so their autonomy is certainly not an absolute one. Eg you can homeschool them, but you can not decide to not school them at all. A child's right to be educated superseeds parents that for whatever reason don't deem that necessary.
And extending that, parents don't have the right to determine the curriculum. God knows which parents have an issue with what [edited some examples out for they repeat themselves and it's more or less the same point from above]

As to who determines best interest, that is a bit technical. I'd say some mixture of teachers/school, external guidelines made by people who have expertise, and parents would probably be best.

(07-03-2023, 12:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I have no issue with children receiving age appropriate lessons on the effects of puberty and I doubt many others do either.

I'm no so sure about that honestly. Parts of the evangelical portion of US population, imho, is quite extreme at times when it comes to these things. Another point of contention is that your being in favor of age appropriate lessons could still just as well be met with all the counter-arguments you made before. Parents' autonomy and all. You might end up arguing for the same mechanisms of ultimately superseeding them if need be, you just pick a different time to do so, the time that you define as "age appropriate". Pretty much the same as I do, it seems we actually rather disagree on what age appropriate means more than anything.

(07-03-2023, 12:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The fact that this is even a major topic of discussion now, when it hasn't been for decades, kind of illustrates that it has gone too far.  You've had instance of parents reading books from the school library out loud at school board meetings that got them cut off as the board complained they were "too graphic".  Here's just one example.

Oh sure, it always goes too far, that is the major problem always in the end. I did not want to make a claim that it isn't so. Like every other issue this one is split in two perspectives and both turn increasingly extreme and uncompromising, as if to provoce the other side as much as possible. Liberals get way too liberal, conservatives get way too reactionary, peak outrage is reached and that is America, where people hate on each other over transgenders in bathrooms or baking cakes for gay people or sex ed or anything really. And so in sex ed debates most people, and I don't mean you, but I also consider patty an honest actor, the children are just pawns in this everlasting hate game and that's how I feel. That's why you can show me these videos from outrage porn sites like FOX (not a shot at you, I get that this is just where the video is hosted) and liberals can show me a whole lot of outrageous media pieces from their outrage porn sites as well. Imho that is the biggest problem here and everywhere, that both sides rather provoce and go too far and argue in rage and do not even want to attempt to reach any kind of compromise, and pretty much everyone is infected by that, at times including you. But since I hereby made a both sides do it argument, I guess it's time to take a break again.