Well liberals is it time to stop July 4th being a holiday?

[GMDino]

(07-06-2023, 08:27 PM)Lucidus Wrote: I'm somewhat surprised you found this compelling. Not only does Mr. Murray's argument suffer greatly from non sequitur and false equivalency fallacies, but -- per his usual -- he's engaging in a shell game in terms of inference, evidence and relevance. 

Perhaps I could counter with an argument made by another Douglas --

What, to the American slave, is your 4th of July? I answer; a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants, brass fronted impudence; your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are, to Him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy -- a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour.

Go where you may, search where you will, roam through all the monarchies and despotisms of the Old World, travel through South America, search out every abuse, and when you have found the last, lay your facts by the side of the everyday practices of this nation, and you will say with me, that, for revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival.   [Fredrick Douglas, 1852]

When Douglas Murray and others like him offer up atrocities committed by other nations, other societies - he misses the mark completely. While one can cite and reference countless examples of inhumanity around the world and throughout history; what America did during it's era of slavery is unique to it's own nation and own victims. Pointing to examples outside that specific situation is rather meaningless, as it provides no contextual relevance. Instead, it serves as a diversion; one meant to alleviate responsibility and mitigate the historical damage. 

Murray is a very good debater whether one agrees with him or not.

Gladwell is not and his way of presenting information is more thought out whether one agrees with him or not.

Gladwell was unprepared for the debate for sure.

Murray is another white guy who blames all the problems on "them", whines about anyone different from what HE thinks is normal and cries about whites not being able to redefine their history to wipe out all the bad stuff they did.