07-09-2023, 06:29 PM
(07-09-2023, 03:28 PM)Lucidus Wrote: You don't find this to be a rather sadistic and capricious game; in any way?
God knew they would sin.
He created them anyway.
They did what they were created to do.
God found them guilty of what he knew they would do.
He punishes them even though they only did what they were created to do.
Why is it that God is exempt from blame, given that he purposely created the entire situation?
I know we were having a debate about this some time ago and it was a good dicussion but I think I just lost time in getting back to what we were talking about, but I'd like to jump back in on this.
I think the problem with the framework you've created here is in the bold.
Notice you said "They did what they were created to do". It sounds like you're saying we were created to sin, which I disagree with. We were created to choose. Our choices are between God and sin. I don't find that to be evil when we have been offered an everlasting alternative to suffering. Had God not given us an alternative then I'd be honest in saying that would be really concerning to me.
Quote:Why is it that human beings must accept the blame and responsibility for that which God chose to create? Could God have chosen to create a world in which the garden scenario plays out differently?
I believe God is responsible for giving us the ability to choose. However, I don't believe he is responsible for the choices that we make. To me, that is the difference. If you had the foreknowledge that someone was going to use a gun to commmit a mass shooting, and you put that gun near the shooter, I wouldn't say you were responsible for the shooting. However, I would say you were responsible for the gun being there for that person to use, but that doesn't make you responsible for the shooting actually happening because the shooting doesn't happen until the perpatrator makes the individualistic choice to use the gun.
Quote:God creates a world with sin.
Then comes in human form to offer a path of forgiveness for the sin he created.
However, he'll only provide salvation to those willing to plead guilty to the crimes he created them to commit.
Again, there's a problem with the framework here.
I wouldn't say God "created" sin, but rather sin is the by proiduct of God's law. In the same way in which human beings don't "create" crime, but rather it's the laws we put in place that "create" crime. Without human laws there is no such thing as crime, just as without God's law there would be no such thing as sin. It's kind of like how shadows aren't really "created". They are simply the by product of light acting on a physical object {like God 's laws or human laws}. You take away the light and suddenly shadows no longer "exist".
Notice you said God offers salvation to "the crimes he created them to commit". Well, that's not a true statement. God did not create us to commt crimes. He created us with the intention that we won't act in sinful ways, but we then choose to be sinful or "commit crimes."
