07-09-2023, 09:49 PM
(07-09-2023, 09:28 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Well, I think there needs to be context for why you created the aircraft with a flaw in the first place.Idk if I have a disdain for god or not. I can't even fully say that I believe one exists. If I did have anything close to disdain for such an entity, it's a lot less about free will to do what I want and a lot more about never having asked to be born into the morality play in the first place.
God created us with free will, which is itself a flaw because free will suggests that we can do whatever we want. If we can do whatever we want then we can act in ways that are evil. But God did not create us to commit evil acts, he simply gave us the choice to. He gave us free will to be able to choose what we want, but in a limited sense of course.
I would still say God is responsible for creating us with free will, but I wouldn't say he's responsible for all the indivudal choices we make out of that free will. That's all on us because we chose to do it. Now, if God created us with free will and then literally controlled us like puppets at points in our lives and made us act out evil things that we didn't freely choose to do, I would say God is responsible for all of our evil acts. But that's not what's happening.
In regards to salvation...
God didn't have to offer us that. At all. He could have created a world where there's just a bunch of suffering and then you die. But I believe he offered us an alternative out of love. I know people will have gripes in the way that God is deciding to offer it to us, but at the end of the day I would argue that the reasons for not taking that offer seems a bit quesitonable.
For those who have a disdain for God, they want to have the free will to do what they want right? They want to be able to do all the "sinful" things they want to do, but why? Obviously because that's what's "fun" that's what's "interesting" that's what's "enjoyable", but that's all quite relative and I'd even argue a bit trivial in comparison to everlasting life in which you wouldn't get to act out those sinful desires but still have free will in a limited sense. This is because at the root of it all, we all really want peace. Eternal happiness. It's what we strive for as human beings. It's why we go to work everyday to make ends meet. It's why we have trelationships with other human beings. It's why we follow the law. It's why we eat and drink and sleep. It's why we do the majority of the things we do in life, because we want these things to lead to a happy/satisfying/peaceful outcome. Yet none of it lasts eternally.
Here comes God, offering us eternal salvation but we don't want that because we have less choice than we had before?
If I had a choice to be erased from time and never have been born, I would seriously consider it. The only thing that gives me pause is the impact on those close to me, but I'm not sure how much that would matter in the end.
let's be real, outside of what modern advertising has led us to believe, life is a pile of endless dogshit. We all spend 60-80 years doing things we hate and then we lose our faculties, get alienated by society, start shitting our pants, then, if we are lucky, we die somewhere with some dignity.
You can talk about endless suffering of the cosmic variety that god will inflict upon us, but the stuff we see here in real time is pretty nasty. We see it and we know it's real, and we know it happens to people for basically no reason at all every single day.
I'm just not sure what kind of. benevolent being gets gratification from watching the sorts of lives we live, as we fail endlessly to meet a perfect standard that we by definition will never achieve. That doesn't sound benevolent. That sounds like a parent or husband that beats his kids or spouse and tells them that the suffering can end if they just make the choice to do what he told them in the first place.
I read some crackpot online once who was trying to explain some other horseshit about this. His idea was that god is indeed the devil. He has laid the deception upon us that we must obey him while suffering in the world he created for us. Before that the universe existed in a state of oneness with the true "light" or god of all. It's a dangerous theory and anyone can say whatever, but it makes a solid point.
Why does an omnipotent being need to create something to worship it? What does it derive from that?
As for people having disdain out of a desire for pure sense pleasure, I find this false. This is a young person's illusion. I've gotten material things and experiences that I never thought I would acquire. Not a single one of them was worth the work I put into getting them. Not a damn one. Not one material thing I own that is anything but essential for life is something I'd say I'd miss significantly if I lost it. All I ever want is to achieve a state of contentment.
Rich people should be happy as hell by the logic that we just want to screw off and do what we want in spite of god. They're not. Most of them are still miserable assholes with screwed up lives and desires they can never satiate. it's the human condition. All money and "freedom" do is amplify the desires to the point of silliness.
