07-12-2023, 10:23 AM
(07-09-2023, 11:00 PM)samhain Wrote: I don't think the idea is that we must not suffer. it's that we were put into a state that was highly likely to become suffering, and not by our own volition.
Sorry I saw you responded to me but never replied back so I'll do that now.
I think this still points to suffering being the root issue for people though. If someone is going to contest that its not suffering but that we weren't given the option, well then I'd say that brings into question the entire argument because it seems to suggest that someone would actually choose suffering over not suffering, which I highly doubt. And if one were to choose suffering, then what difference would it really make for God to have made that choice for you assuming you would have made the choice yourself? Sure it would give you another choice on the spectrum of free will, but in terms of the "goodness" of God, I'm not sure how that would make him look better.
Quote:It's like me offering my pet snake a live mouse. Now, I normally only feed him pre-killed, and he eats them readily. But I also know that if I offer live food, his instincts will compel him to strike and wrap. I suppose he could leave the mouse alone, as in like "anything is possible" kinds of terms. Like me finding a suitcase with 5 million cash on the way to work possible. It could happen, but it won't, and nobody would prepare as if it will. So, here's me in the role of his benevolent overseer, plopping a hapless rodent in there at the mercy of chance, all while telling my kid that if the snake eats the live mouse, imma kill his scaly ass for it. Live prey is forbidden in my house, and that's a hard rule. The only rule. Does the damn snake know that? Does he understand the human thought process about eating an animal alive and the barbarism is requires? Hell no. He's a biological eating machine. Sees heat and strikes if he's healthy. This is similar to us allegedly not being able to understand god's thought process, as it is unknowable to us. If god put that tree there, and he truly knew Adam and Eve, which he most certainly did, he knew well and good what they would do.
It all just seems very trivial for an all-knowing being. Put a thing in place that poses a test that they will most certainly fail.
I would say God knew they would definitely fail, but for whatever reason, perhaps just to have more beings to love/have worship him, he created us even though he knew we'd fail. In terms of being an all powerful God, failure seems quite insignificant when you can reverse that failure through salvation.
Now of course, people take issue with the idea of needing to be saved in the first place. That's something people will just have to take up with God. From my perspective, I'm willing to accept that because he is the creator of all things, has mercy on me and has offered me a way out of the suffering even if he put me in a world in which suffering exists.
