USA Industrial Powerhouse?

[*michaelsean*]

(07-24-2023, 10:21 AM)GMDino Wrote: Funny enough we got in a pretty heated discussion about pensions last Friday at dinner.

My buddy was talking about teacher unions and how they have a ridiculous pension system that is "unsustainable".  I made the point that once it was promised they should be forced to see it through.  He said his father worked for a steel mill for 30 years and then his pension wasn't there when he retired.

What I couldn't get him to understand was the pension money didn't disappear...it went to management.  His father got screwed so he thinks it is a bad idea to offer pensions.

Our other friend, much more conservatives says "businesses figured out in the 80's that it was an unsustainable model".  I asked what was different from the 40's to the 80's and then what changed in the 80's.  His answer was "they figured it out".  Refusing to acknowledge that the promises were made, people worked their lives relying on that money being there and then it was just taken away thus adding to the problems of the 80's thru today.

Now, he's not entirely wrong about the pension system.  Promising to pay a fixed amount for the lifetime of the retiree is difficult when it comes to replacing them also.  But what blew my mind was the complete disregard for the worker.  He said he runs a small business and can't afford to offer something like US Steel can.  I agree...so don't.  But if you do then you should make sure you are working to meet that promise at the end.

Then the argument of life expectancy came up.

Them insisting we live "so much longer" than in the 60's.

I pointed out it is less than ten years from 1960 to now and so they went on to say it keeps increasing and we could live to 150 someday! 

No amount of discussion could change his mind that ownership had no obligation to meet the agreements they made.  Just too bad for the workers guess they'll have to make do while their money is stolen.

You definitely should pay it if you promised it.  401K with a matching contribution seems the most viable way today.  We are now owned by people from a different country who live in NY, and they don't believe in any of that stuff.  It was two years before they would contribute anything toward health insurance.