08-08-2023, 08:57 PM
(08-08-2023, 07:54 PM)Stewy Wrote: Come on. You know it's not that simple. Change is good generally. It gives people hope and keeps them on their toes. Also, Marvin was a players coach, so that created a bond.
But things change over time. Marvin was clearly tired. It was clear to the fans, players and FO that the Marvin way, was never going to win a championship. So his time had run its course and he should have moved on 4-5 years earlier.
You sound almost disingenuous in your analysis. You know better.
It's hard to argue this without sounding like a hater so I'll say this.....in the moment, I thought ML was great for Bengals culture. After several years of reflection (post ML), he was part of the problem. He didn't change the culture, he was just a better coach than we were used to. the Bengals were still seen as "that team" that nobody wanted to play for.
I was a huge ZT hater early on but I sincerely think what ZT (and Bengals leadership) have done for the franchise is legit great for the culture. ML was just a change of pace. He should've been fired at the same time we dumped CP....which mostly echos your last statement.
(08-08-2023, 07:57 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think Marvin was a tremendous players coach. I wasn’t a fan then so I’m not the best there and limited.. But the team had aged and some of the top players coasting. There were some players that weren’t great workers. Zac changed the kind of player they drafted to players that loved to work. They set sights on team captains in FA and the draft. They really researched there character more. I understand Zac wanted the Scouting department to look more at their mannerisms and reactions to their coaches and teammates. I hear they double and triple checked with contacts that new them.
Agree with everything here
(08-08-2023, 08:18 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I get where you're coming from and this truly is a FASCINATING study of leadership, willingess to change, and commitment. Stunning, really.
I think ML changed the culture to be much better FOR THAT ERA of NFL football and compared to what had been going on for the previous 12 or so years in Cincinnati. Mike Brown did not understand the modern athlete and Marvin helped change that for sure.
Where Marvin failed was that he couldn't adapt or evolve from the culture he created - especially with Mike there as the bottlecap. He was a slave to his own machinations as far as how the roster was to be constructed and the players he was comfortable with. He loved verteran guys on 3rd, 4th deals. Guys in their 30s and past their prime. He trusted them and relied on them. ZT, stark contrast, trusts very specific 2nd year guys and his own guys he brings in via the draft.
And ZT drafts a completely different type of guy than Marvin, generally speaking. The FAs are completely different types of guys since Taylor came in.
That being said, it's no coincidence that this flow chart lead to this 180 degree move: Marvin was fired "not retained" > Mike Steps way into the back of the bus > Katie, Troy, & Duke take control of day to day > The aformentioned signed THEIR guy who pitched a vision that resonated with them > The entire team is behind the concept as a group.
To me, THAT is the flow chart and timeline that makes sense as to why Marvin's culture was changed. Marvin was handcuffed by Mike Brown, sure, but I think he also plotted with Mike on a lot of roster stuff, too. Mike gave marvin a ton of what he wanted. I think this group does with ZT, too, but are much much much more willing to listen to coach Taylor and have an actual long term plan.
I give INCREDIBLE thanks and credit to Taylor, Katie, Troy, Duke, etc. for creating what might be the best work environment & system in the entire league. Katie & Troy being given control by Mike was HUGE.
I do think I overlook the effect of Katie taking control of the team. I don't pretend to know what went on between ML and MB. I know they had a great relationship but I also remember how stubborn MB seemed to be.
