08-25-2023, 12:43 AM
(08-24-2023, 05:04 PM)hollodero Wrote: OK, maybe it is abuse of power, though I would say being outside a norm alone is not the same thing as power abuse. But the main problem with this example is that it does probably not sway an electon or turns Trump doubters into Trump believers. That's just a premise I see unfulfilled.
You're sadly right, this type of backdoor attack on a Constitutional right is not sexy enough to get noticed by most. Almost certainly why it's being done.
Quote:Well, of course, there are plenty understandable reasons to still vote Trump. I'd still hope that for most people, there are even better reasons to not do so, but it's of course easier to feel that way when one likes left policies.
If things were better, that's probably a matter of perspective. Some people might just feel that things are better now that there's not three asinine presidential tweets a day to talk about. But sure, overall, I understand. Inflation etc. are issues for sure.
It's certainly not just inflation. I don't know a single person who states the last three years have been enjoyable. Whether that's Biden's fault or not is certainly up for debate (I don't think all of it is certainly), but we all know the POTUS gets credit for good times that is undeserved and the reverse is equally true.
Quote:I understand why Bragg appears weak. I think it would be fair though to separate the Bragg indictment from the others. I understand that many people are motivated not to do so and to use the possibly weakest indictment to weaken the others. But these are usually the same people that thought the barrel to be rotten to begin with, and just would use any argument to paint it as such. Would the Bragg indictment not exist, I doubt people would view the other indictments any differently. The doubters would just find another reason to doubt. Eg. Luvnit does not need Bragg in his arguments.
I think here is where we differ the most. In fact, and no offense to him, you using Luvnit as a counter to this argument is actually a point in my favor. No, Bragg is certainly not a talking point for him. But we're talking about more moderate people, who otherwise might be swayed. If you claim Trump is being hounded with garbage indictments, and correctly stating this has never happened to a former POTUS before, and a perfect example of such a garbage indictment drops in your lap it is literal validation of your entire viewpoint. Bragg pushed more people to the Trump is being persecuted camp than anyone else has, by a huge margin.
Quote:In that sense, I think you're overestimating the importance a bit. And my main reason to say so is that imho an unbiased view can only be that a weak indictment over hush money can not mean a different indictment over pretty blatant insurrection attempts should be declared null and void. I think it's fair to say that and I can't really believe many neutral people would disagree. So I also doubt many people's view actually hinge on the Bragg indictment alone.
Respectfully, I could not disagree more. He poisoned the entire tree. All of the fruit from it is now tainted. For anyone on the fence, and I think you underestimate how many people fall into that category, the Bragg indictment was proof positive that they are going after Trump no matter what. Americans are naturally distrustful of government, it's a huge part of the national character. This type of action directly feeds into that character trait. It's direct proof, for many, that the government is out to get Trump. Without it you'd have far less ammunition to make this claim.
Quote:I just checked, surveys say folks are actually not happy there. So yeah, I get the point.
Dude, I cannot say this strongly enough, it is a disaster here. I have friends or family in both Portland and Seattle, and it may be even worse there. It's brazen lawlessness in ways I would never have thought possible in this country. The nice neighborhood I lived in for over a decade is now unrecognizable. It sincerely pains me to see it.
Quote:Only thing I'd disagree with is that Trump has the best shot. Someone posted the numbers somewhere, but it seems any candidate would fare just as well as Trump against Biden. And imho that makes sense. And unlike Trump, a slightly less extreme personality might just bring those suburbians back, while Trump has pretty much set his limit. He appears to be the candidate who is among the least likely to beat Biden and strategic primary voters might acknowledge that.
It's not whether you think he has the best shot, it's whether the people who vote for him do. Plus, we need to all acknowledge the Dem push to keep Trump as the frontrunner, for reasons you just expressed. The left cannot simultaneously decry Trump being the frontrunner while simultaneously doing everything they can to ensure that remains the case.
