08-29-2023, 03:31 PM
(08-29-2023, 02:35 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I disagree with your interpretation of that particular sentence in the Atlantic article. I think mass shootings keep occurring because they are publicized. The whole "world stage" thing is just this author's way of saying "These shooters are doing this because they know it will make the headlines, which will cause people to talk about them and their reasoning etc." I don't consider that a conspiracy theory to think these shooters want attention. They write those manifestos for a reason. And that reason is to be noticed and talked about.
I 100% agree. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the legacy media is scrambling to stay afloat with the proliferation of news sites available to the public. Sensationalism is a survival strategy for them at this point.
Quote:Now...the problem with that is a journalist is saying it while talking about the shooting. I've long held the belief that mass shootings would decrease in occurrence if the shooters and their reasoning were not even identified. Just say "a person shot 3 people. Here are the three people. The shooter's identity and ideology are not important."
And this is a common problem in modern journalism. They muddy the waters in their own stories. The difference between me and you is I think this is done deliberately.
Quote:But then, that goes against human nature. We yearn to understand why things happen, which leads to us inevitably investigating deranged shooters' histories, which uncover social media posts that reveal their ideology and they even write their own manifestos etc. It's part of human preservation to understand why a person would murder 3 strangers and tie that back into whether you are in danger of something similar happening to you.
I think the much more interesting discussion is WHY these shooters are motivated by race. Why would a 21 year old white man in America hate black people to the degree that he'd gun down 3 strangers? Why would he take his own life just to get this small ounce of what he perceives to be "justice" for whatever ills, cultural, societal, personal or otherwise, he attributes to black people?
Racism, at a personal level, is IMO at an all time low. Or rather, it was until very recently. What I think is happening is a combination of factors. Some people fear the country no longer resembling what they grew up with. This is coupled with this belief, which is rather consistently advanced, that the US is irredeemably racist and anyone supporting it is guilty of the same. Another issue is that many view it as a uniquely white issue, which it most certainly isn't and was vividly demonstrated during the "stop Asian hate" news cycle. The problem isn't discussed honestly by pretty much anyone and the few people who do try and have this conversation are immediately attacked and labeled.
Quote:For the trans shooter, we know they went to that school, so a lot of people speculated that they were, in some way, mentally scarred by their upbringing involving that school and went insane and shot the school up. There was a personal link to the school that was easily identifiable and from there, motives were assumed. We won't know for sure that that is the reasoning, but the link is easy enough to make. If a man kills his wife, you figure she probably did something he didn't like. If a worker shoots up his job, you figure they probably hated the people they had to interact with every day. If a student shoots up the school they are currently going to, you figure they hated the people they were around all day every day. There's a personal link between the shooter and the victims, no matter how vague or tangential it is.
Maybe. We could actually know if the details of their manifest were released, or even discussed. That they haven't is, as you stated earlier, grist for the mill for the far right.
Quote:But why does a 21 year old white man hate black people? Why strangers? It makes no sense to a logical individual. So you pull on that thread.
But then, that often devolves into a question of what media he consumes and whether that media is propaganda and/or meant to generate a response such as fear or anger (to keep the clicks coming) and now we're back to the capitalism angle.
There's no way to discuss things like this without slinging mud one way or another. The talk that you consider an "agenda."
The reason I label it an agenda is because there's a clear pattern at work. That, and the topic is never discussed in an open and fair manner. Biden will ramble on endlessly about "white supremacy" (despite making an extremely racist statement himself on the floor of Congress) but ignoring the vast majority of shootings that he can't turn into political capital.
Quote:As far as the gun control discussion, I am not well versed enough in the topic to counter anything on that website. It seems like they did their homework, but I'm not about to dig into a bunch of studies to verify they are interpreting the data correctly. I personally find it unusual that this is a uniquely American phenomenon (I know there have been the occasional mass shooting in other countries, but nowhere near the scale as in America), but I could chalk that up to any number of things. Without data behind it, it would just be speculation.
Actually, the second link I posted addresses exactly that, and it's not what you think. I discovered that guy on Twitter a long time ago. He's a great source for scientific evidence and actual statistics. He consistently tweets in response to Everytown, Gifford and Shannon Watts and they never, ever respond. He's not rude or abrasive either, he just counters their false claims with actual facts.
Quote:On the Biden point, politicians use any and every opportunity to score points. Nothing is sacred to politicians.
That's literally what the Republicans in Tennessee did. They attempted to expel these three people from Congress because they thought it would be politically advantageous to do so. It just so happens, they misread the situation and it backfired on them immensely. And Biden took advantage of that misjudgment.
I actually had zero issue with them being expelled based on their flagrant violation of the rules. The argument that other people hadn't been expelled doesn't really impress me. "But he did it to" stopped being a reasonable excuse for behavior in grade school.
Quote:That's what makes them politicians and there's a reason nobody likes politicians. They all became politicians because they wanted to make some change to the world (even if that change is just to assist in their own enrichment haha) and that involves influencing people to side with you or your allies.
Which I understand. When I take issue with it is when it is in promotion of a lie, especially a lie being told to try and curtail the rights of others.
