09-13-2023, 10:02 PM
(09-13-2023, 08:30 PM)Dill Wrote: You are getting over anxious here. I did not say Trump was a fascist, and I have argued elsewhere in this forum, not only that he is not but people use the term improperly. They really should be using more general terms like "right-wing authoritarian populist" or "autocrat." Calling him "fascist" is like calling garden variety Democrats and centrists "the left." E.g., here:
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-The-Fight-Against-Fascists-I-Can-t-Believe-This-Exists?page=2&highlight=fascism (#25,27)
and here: http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-CPAC-stage-design-Fascists-gonna-Fascist?pid=994984&highlight=fascism#pid994984 (#30)
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Republican-National-Convention-s?pid=894409&highlight=fascism#pid894409 (81)
and here: http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Sometimes-it-is-a-drag-being-correct?pid=722978&highlight=fascism#pid722978 (23)
Since I don't think Trump is a fascist I don't think I need to name one fascist policy of his. But since I do think he is an authoritarian, I'm willing to name some statements and actions that are very clearly authoritarian in character. One that comes frequently to mind is his assertion that we should have "kept the oil" after the Iraq war--like an ill-advised war creates a right to other's private property. His efforts to scapegoat non-Anglo ethnicities also fit the authoritarian mold, warning Americans of Mexican "rapists" and doing his damndest to create a Muslim ban. That is a consistent feature of right-wing populism across continents. The most blatant examples, of course, were his efforts to overthrow a valid election, during which he considered seizing voting machines, wanted the DOJ to declare a "problem" with the election, organized lists of fake electors, and the like. There are a lot of trimmings that could go here as well: the misogyny, wanting a military parade, that crazy press conference with his cabinet gushing over how wonderful it was to work for him, his love for foreign dictators.
You've put a lot of info out there. For the moment I'll just deal with the above.
First "racism" is not an intrinsic requirement of fascism. Fascism in Italy was born without it as either tenet or policy theme (though Italian fascists certainly had racist views similar to other Europeans and to Americans at the time).
Second, if you consider Nazism fascism, racism and racial hierarchy were built into their policies and worldview for sure. But their view was that "non-Aryan" races were inferior. Fascism, in all its varieties, affirms natural inequality. Those people you call "the Left" sound more like they are obsessed with racial equality, not inequality, as Nazis were.
So it seems to me that you are doing what I have accused "the Left" of doing--i.e., misapplying the term "fascism." Why isn't that right wing "manipulation of speech"? (Though manipulation of speech is something all parties do in all countries--not an index of fascism.)
I gotta cut down on the long posts so I'll try to make this my last one... anyway:
1) You did mention fascism and I assumed, probably correctly, that you were talking about right wing and what Trump was intending to do. You may not have called him a fascist, but I think that’s splitting hairs here.
2) Keeping the oil after the Iraq war is just an example of, to the victor go the spoils. It’s how war goes. No utopian rewriting of the rules is going to change that.
3) Muslim ban: Trump took a page out of the Dems playbook here, and used a justified reason (countries that didn’t have proper vetting) to potentially do something shady. If he intended it as an actual Muslim ban, yes, that’s fascist and authoritarian. This begs the question, though, why would Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Indonesia (the most populous Muslim country in the world) be excluded? This could easily go either way, the left will have its "justification" regardless.
4) Re: overthrowing the election. I’d call that a wash, with the exception that Trump had more than enough reason to raise an eyebrow at the legitimacy of the election. It was rigged, flat out. The Dems, Twitter and the FBI colluded, and if you refuse to see that, I can’t help ya there. I’ll also point out that the 2016 election was contested because of possible Russia collusion. They found none, and fabricated the Steele dossier. Sorry man, that's prime fascism.
5) Racism - I made sure to point out that it was more Nazi-esque, so I’m going to skip over the part about how you said it may be a misapplication of the word fascism. The left has been weaponizing race and racism since the Obama administration. “Racial Equality” has become more and more about taking whites down, and less about racial equality. It’s been easier for blacks to get into schools than whites and Asians of equal qualifications for a really… really long time. All a moot point though, as the SC decided 3 generations of affirmative action was enough, and it’s going the way of the dodo since the Students for Fair Admissions situation; this would be the most honest and least political move towards racial equality that we’ve had in at least a decade. Until Elon came along, you could post racist things about whites with impunity; but do it to blacks? Suspension or ban. That isn't tin foil hat stuff. It's a thing. I don't know your stance on that, but I'm certainly not cool with it. And a growing percentage of the country isn’t either. If we put racial equality at the top of the list, we gotta have it apply to everyone. I'm of the opinion that diversity hires and racial quotas, as opposed to equality of opportunity and hiring further divide the country based on race, as if the goal were a "separate but equal" type situation.
Last thing re: racism. Police brutality has also been exaggerated and used as a weapon by the left to promote fascist riots (“there will be blood in the streets”). They reported stories falsely (look how Breonna Taylor, Rashard Brooks, Jacob Blake, Michael Brown and Stephon Clark were covered, then look up what actually happened). Manipulation of the media. To save you the time of doing the research on my claim of exaggeration: although blacks are 2.5 times more likely to be shot unarmed by police, they also commit more crimes. You can look that up on the homeland security / FBI web page, table 47a I believe. Racial relations were at their best in the 90s, yet the Dems will have you believe that it’s gotten worse now, it’s become a self fulfilling prophecy. Ask yourself this question: is the US more or less systemically racist in 2023, after 2 terms of a black president, than it was in 1990? If so, please explain.
I don’t think we will agree, because we’re telling each other 2 + 2 = 5, but I do appreciate that you have done research and are not reacting emotionally. That’s important, and that much, we can at least agree on.
