09-14-2023, 12:41 PM
(09-14-2023, 12:02 PM)hollodero Wrote: Not familiar with all the examples, but the overall message is imho true. And I do not think I am with the "good guys", or that democrats are the good guys. It's all way too nuanced to put on such a label to begin with, plus there are plenty examples where imho they clearly are not the good guys. I think they're still better than anything Trump, that I do; and of course as European alone I believe at least some left policies lead to a better society, but I get that in many respects California is a credible counter-example. That being said, boy there are bad apples and oversimplifications and undue villifications and smugness etc etc on this side of the aisle, en masse, as are complacent overreaches like the one discussed in this thread. No doubt. I'm certainly not with them or feel I have to take their side at all costs.
I know you don't that's why I specifically left you out of the example. I think that both left and right leaning policies can have a positive effect on society. A right leaning example would be on the importance of family. It is not an exaggeration to say that many on the left are dismissive, and sometimes disdainful of the importance of father's in raising children. As discussed in another thread, single parent household led by the father achieve significantly better results than those led by a mother, even when income disparity is accounted for. In fact the BLM movement originally stated that part of their mission was the destruction of the "nuclear family". They have since removed that part due to the poor optics, but they are hardly alone in this regard.
Also, the importance of cultural touchstones to a cohesive and largely unified society is also largely the province of the right. There is a tendency on the left to view everything that is old or traditional as inherently bad, largely due to the politics of those who created them. The awfulness of historical relativism aside the character of the progenitor does not influence the validity or importance of their idea or institution. This is one of the biggest areas of weakness for the modern left.
Quote:The purpose of my post you answered to was twofold, first to underline how absurd it is to scold someone for allegedly using the term fascism and then throw the fascism label around anyhow, and second to address several mistruths and wrong narratives. That, imho, is something the right particularly excels on, on repeating and reaffirming falsehoods in the hopes of them getting factual. Not that it's only the right side that does so, of course, far from it, but at times it's just overly blatant and possibly deliberately provocative.
Agreed to the former, I just thought your post opened up some interesting avenues of discussion. It is also certainly true that a lie repeated enough becomes truth for many. As you say the left does engage in this too, and I believe they do so in just as insidious ways, if not as blatantly. Take the oft repeated utter fabrication from the left that firearm deaths are the number one killer of "children" in the US. This is blatantly untrue and the statement includes people aged 18 and 19, neither of which are children, or even adolescents. In the US under 14 is legally a child. If you take that age group alone then firearm deaths aren't even a blip on the radar. If you have to lie, and lie often, to try and achieve your goal then your goal is something I hope you never achieve (not you personally obviously). This is as true with the "stolen" 2020 election as it is with criminal justice "reform" and gun deaths.
