10-09-2023, 10:35 AM
(10-09-2023, 07:31 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This post is a very valid position that I fear will be lost on many people when discussed in the context of this latest situation. I often think about discussions surrounding the Palestinian-Israeli conflict in a similar way as I do gun control discussions. The topic gets a lot of focus during major incidents and in the immediate aftermath, but then the attention dies away for the vast majority until the next flare up. The problem is that in those times of heightened emotion the issues get the most attention with the least amount of logic and nuanced evaluation, but no one is paying attention when those sorts of discussions take place. Trying to apply this sort of analysis to these situations during the times of heightened emotion comes off as defending those in the wrong and as a result people sour on these positions during the less emotional times. At the same time, though, people need those sorts of takes during these times because it can prevent actions that could have dire consequences.
He'd get a lot more traction if he didn't have a long track record of blaming Israel unfairly for events such as the Six Days War. As argued in the other thread, there is a lot to criticize Israel for, but when it is accompanied by attempts to shift the lions share of the blame for these conflicts on to them it becomes tainted. Israel did not create itself, and since its creation it has been the target of hostile neighbors, essentially all of its neighbors. Said neighbors have tried to utterly destroy the nation several times in the past, they were the clear aggressors.
Israel reacted to these constant, and severe threats, they didn't create them. Their actions have not always been ideal, but if we're going to try and turn a lens of understanding on why Hamas does what it does then Israel at the very least deserves the same consideration. At the same time, no one should be attempting to equate the actions of a terrorist organization funded by a nation that routinely proclaims its desire is "Death to Israel", to the IDF. To do so puts them on equal terms as actors, which they most certainly are not. Hamas deliberately targets civilians, both Israeli and Palestinian and is quite comfortable with the wholesale slaughter of innocents. We don't even need to get into the other unspeakable acts they've committed in the past few days. Dill is so cognizant of this difference that he flat out refuses to respond to posts asking him to explain what El Quds day protests are about, you'll notice he did so again in this very thread.
So while he raises some legitimate points he does so in a manner that marginalizes the atrocities of Hamas, and their motivations. They are not just looking for a Palestinian homeland, they want to destroy Israel, in the exact same way as the nation who bankrolls them, the Islamic "Republic" of Iran, the leading state sponsor of terrorism in the entire world. If you want to have an honest conversation of the roots of this present conflict, as Dill claims to want, then its proponent cannot be a poster with a long history of anti-Israeli posts who ignores the real motivations of the Islamic extremists who are, once again, the aggressors in a war with Israel. I'm sure he'll find a way to blame the Yom Kippur war on Israel too.
