Hamas Attacks Israel: 70 Israelis, 198 Palestinians Dead

[CJD]

(10-11-2023, 11:22 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You're omitting some key facts.  Israel did not create itself.  It didn't magically appear overnight.  Any blame for those displaced does not fall on them, it falls on those who enabled the creation of Israel.  Of course, once created, they are responsible for their own conduct.  And they have been attacked almost relentlessly since that time.  Their choices were/are to fight back or die.  The Palestinians were represented by numerous Arab states in these conflicts.  Their backers proved insufficient to achieve the goal of eliminating the state of Israel.  Your view of Israel as the oppressors and the Palestinians as a displaced people with no nation or agency is a much more recent phenomena.  This status quo occurred after Israel successfully defended themselves from several wars of aggression involving several Arab nations.

Are you saying Israel was created against the Israelis' will? I don't understand what you mean here. Of course they didn't create themselves overnight. They were backed by the British, who were the chief culprits in the original seizing of land from the Palestinians. They were attacked relentlessly because they were occupying stolen land. You can phrase it in a way that makes them sound like they were on the defensive as much as you want, but the thing that will never change is that the land they resided on during those wars was taken from the people who lived there by an outside force. Whether that outside force was purely British, purely Zionists or a mixture of the two is immaterial. The land was seized. There were struggles to gain it back from the people who were given the land. Israel won those struggles.

Quote:... The fact is what they consider their homeland and is now within the borders of Israel are gone.  Israel is not going to give them up.  So your choices are this, find a new homeland (make Gaza part of Egypt for example) or continue as is.  The two state solution is never going to work, because at the end of the day neither party really wants it.  The Israelis have decided they have control of their ancestral homeland and aren't giving it up, and the Muslims in the area won't be happy until Israel is a memory.


Sympathize, empathize and understand all you want (just for one side oddly enough), but that's the reality.

That's the exact problem. Israel seized their land, they defended it against attempts to reclaim it and are now settled there.

There is no compromise that will make either group happy. It would be unjust to tell the Palestinians to just go find somewhere else to live. It would be unjust to tell Israelis who have lived in the area for almost 100 years to vacate now. The toothpaste is already out of the tube.

The correct solution would have been for Israel to have never been created in the first place.

Since that's obviously not possible anymore, the next best solution would be for Israel to stop oppressing Palestinians and be extremely conciliatory in negotiations about a potential dual state or blended state scenario. Israel are the victimizers (or the benefactors of the victimizers at the very least) in this conflict, they should be the ones to budge, not the Palestinians.

Of course, as we've already said, they (along with the Palestinians) are filled with religious fervor, so that will never happen either.

So where do we go from here? Terroristic violence was the obvious next step. The backlash will likely be fierce. I wouldn't be surprised if Gaza were leveled at the end of this. I just hope the Palestinians find a way to flee the area before that happens.