Trump's lawyer-President does not have to support Constitution

[Dill]

(10-16-2023, 06:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not trying to change your mind, I just think "It's only a lie if you can prove the person who says it knows it isn't true" opens the door to what I think is interesting discussion on what really goes into judgment on this sort of thing.

To me it is interesting to ask how we can prove what anyone is thinking or when anyone is lying.  To help make my point, I could tell you that I voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 and I'm not voting for him in 2024 because he's lying about the election being rigged.  Even if you use the piles of evidence that I supply that I didn't do such a thing, you can't prove that I don't currently think that I did.

It's the old "It's not a lie if you believe it" thing gone from sit com to mainstream politics.  I'm a society-watcher and stuff like this is fascinating. 

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Trump really believes his election lie.

1. That means that he has not the power to distinguish reality from fantasy.  In the last days of his presidency, he ignored truth-tellers and preferred crazy counsel from unstable people who sought proximity to power by giving Trump (illegal) hope that he could retain power. (Some might object that he didn't ignore all bad counsel: e.g., he did not attempt to seize voting machines.) 

2. I could let that pass along with the many other crazy things people believe no matter what--like the belief some have that Trump still controls the US military or Hilary traffics children out of pizza parlors. But we are talking about someone who could be the next president, with all the power and prerogative that comes with that--someone impervious to the kind of data, empirical evidence and sober judgment that pollical leaders require when making policy decisions. 

3. One consequence of 2: Trump seems "sincerely" unable to distinguish between legal and illegal behavior. That was evident through both impeachments ("perfect" phone calls!), and it continues with his insistence that he owns the classified documents he stole. He believes his own lie in that case as well. 

So this brings us to the disturbing part. MAGA supporters who defend Trump's illegal behavior with the claim "he really believed it" seem comfortable with what that means about his judgment. They still want a president who picks counselors who tell him what he wants to hear, who cannot seem to understand what the law/Constitution says regarding presidential powers, and who will break the law to stay in power if he really "believes" he is in the right. That makes me think that, in fact, it would make no difference for them if Trump were lying and they knew that for sure. They, like him, are also ignoring evidence and "good counsel" when it doesn't suit them. They may be unsure whether he really doesn't own the classified documents he stole, or whether he really tried to usurp an office no longer his, but they don't care much either way. The other side is just as bad. Somehow.