10-24-2023, 07:12 PM
(10-24-2023, 05:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I wish I could have your optimism. The issue is that the rhetoric we are seeing out of the MAGA movement is shockingly similar to the rhetoric that came out of fascist movements in the early twentieth century. You could quite literally pull quotes from that era and in contemporary politics and you would have a hard time discerning them. There were fascists embedded in our federal government and plots to overthrow our government were in motion prior to our involvement in WWII. What saved us then was our people's belief in democratic principles. It was our belief that by voting we could make a difference and effect change.
This is why those that study democratic theory look at what is going on right now and have serious concern. What prevented the demise of our government is no longer there. The propaganda efforts have been fruitful in this where we even had Trump in New Hampshire telling people "So we have to be careful, you gotta get out there and you got to watch those voters. You don't have to vote, don't worry about voting. The voting, we got plenty of votes, you gotta watch." That is the sort of language that concerns democratic theorists and it only the most recent example of efforts from the MAGA movement that are very anti-democratic.
I point all of this out to say that I sincerely fear that a large portion of the 2A movement is drinking this propaganda up. What I hope is that there will be a turning point where these people will see the dangers before it is too late, but I think it is more of a frog in boiling water scenario. I joke around about the whole Gadsden/thin-blue-line paradox that I see constantly, but that sort of cognitive dissonance truly is a display of the sort of concern I have with the modern 2A movement.
Our country is an anomaly given how long our democratic government has existed, and the track record for regaining a democratic government once it is lost ain't great. I try to keep it (relatively) light hearted in here, but this is my sincere position on all of this. I am 90% certain that I will see the fall of democracy in this country during my lifetime.
You're more pessimistic than I am, which is saying something. It would be odd for people advocating for firearms ownership by anyone who chooses would then take the route of usurping the government. Both sides can, and do, buy firearms. You'd think restricting the sales would be more in line with this goal, seeing as how firearms ownership leans heavily to the right at the moment.
(10-24-2023, 06:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well put. If fascism takes hold in the USA it's going to be enabled by people who are convinced what they are doing is preventing fascism.
Installing Trump isn't fascism if you convince people he won democratically and his opponents were installed illegally. Overthrowing or circumventing our current democracy is fighting fascism to a lot of people.
I'm pretty sure people believe that:
Biden was undemocratically installed.
Biden is a fascist.
Biden will end America.
If you "knew" those were all true, would you really think doing anything to get him out of power and heal our corrupt system was wrong or anything other than patriotic? Before 2020 I said that people are going to say "If democracy gave me Biden instead of Trump, maybe I don't like democracy anymore" but I was wrong. People are just agreeing to deny reality and say if we don't win, the will of the people wasn't heard. The people who will enable fascism will believe they are fighting fascism.
You're assuming that such a move would could only come from the right. I certainly wouldn't speak for Bel, but I don't think a move from the left is outside the realm of possibility.
