11-01-2023, 11:57 AM
(11-01-2023, 07:39 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Ok, so I was conflating the two stories in the OP. I have done a little more reading around the internet and seen that the German-Israeli woman from the thread title, it was her head that was found, or at least a part of it. According to other reports her body had not yet been found and it is believed by officials and her family that she was killed almost immediately during the attack.
As for the woman in the video, I wish I could say I was surprised by this. It is an unfortunate reality of armed conflict and has been all throughout human history. We like to think that we have moved beyond it, but in every conflict we know that isn't the case. Because Hamas and PIJ are terrorist organizations that take hostages, lack the formal military infrastructure, and don't tend to hide their activities like this as well as a result, we know more about this than when Russians invade Ukraine. People really suck.
Yes, rape is an awful byproduct of military invasion, especially when dealing with a conscript army. The key point here is if it is used as a deliberate tactic or is does it go unpunished when discovered? If we use WW2 as an example, and here the Axis powers, German soldiers were harshly punished if they engaged in rape and were discovered. The Japanese, not so much If you look at the Allied powers the US and UK would certainly punish their soldiers if they engaged in rape. The Soviets not so much. I think for both the Japanese and the Soviets it could be said that it was, at worst tacitly condoned and at best ignored. So, while rape is indeed a byproduct of war it is not equal across the board in either punishment or even being seen as wrong or unacceptable.
Hamas definitely falls under using it as a deliberate tactic, nor is it punished. This is coupled with the fact that, for Muslim extremists, women who do not conform to Islamic standards are considered whores who can be treated any way you choose.
(11-01-2023, 08:04 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: What comment is there to be had? It's common knowledge that Hamas sucks. It's common knowledge that Israel sucks.
This is a religious war. There is no right. Only varying degrees of wrong. Innocent people are going to die, just like this lady Hamas killed and/or beheaded, as well as those at a Gaza refugee camp Israel bombed to get to a Hamas leader.
So if the supporter of either side wants to clutch pearls over the wrongdoings of the other, they can kick rocks, IMO.
Only if we can agree that there are varying degrees of "suck". Deliberate and wanton rape and murder of civilians is a huge step beyond engaging military assets and inflicting civilian casualties while doing so. If you seek to see Israel and Hamas as bad actors in this fashion in a totally equal way you are delusional. That would be akin to equating the action of the Allies and Axis as equally "sucking", which is obviously untrue.
(11-01-2023, 08:38 AM)Dill Wrote: I said "perhaps even rape" because I do not know what was on all the videos circulated in Israel and other places BY Hamas. And I don't see why a woman or anyone "detailing" a rape would be more impactful than an actual video thereof. So TWICE I spoke of circulated VIDEOS and your response is that testimony is more compelling that just "reading." You "repeat" because your answer continues to miss the actual question.
So I still don't see why Hamas would circulate videos of what they had done, only to suddenly worry about "PR" from victim testimony.
Why wouldn't that further the goals which prompted them to circulate torture/murder video in the first place? If someone produces reasons to show that Hamas IS now suddenly worried about PR, that would offer some insight into how the development of the conflict is affecting Hamas' internal dynamic.
I will honestly never understand why you ask a question, get an answer and then ask the same question, only in an overly wordy fashion. I have answered this.
Quote:Maybe there's my answer: Dino fit your agenda, confining himself to disgust while you elaborated Hamas' larger goals.
No, not maybe, not at all. I gave you my answer.
Quote:I "felt" a need to do otherwise for two reasons: 1) your understanding of Hamas goals don't seem very consistent with Hamas' actions, and 2) I don't see much point in just "expressing disgust" as an end in itself. I don't think you do either, or at least in your own case.
Also answered.
Quote:I didn't assume so until you told me to start my own thread when I asked a question about Hamas tactics.
Also answered.
Quote:I've mentioned before that you don't know what a "semantic argument" is (it always irked me when you erroneously claimed Fred used them). Wikipedia has a brief introduction to the topic with supporting examples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_argument. E.g., when one accuses people who advocate for minority rights of "real" racism, modifying a definition for persuasive purpose, that's maybe the best current illustration of how one works.
And back to pedantry. I wonder if you realize just how banal having any type of discussion with you is for the other person? As Dino correctly points out, this is not productive, so I will cease interacting with you on this topic so the thread does not become locked.
