Biden now calling for Israel to pause???

[Dill]

(11-14-2023, 05:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Are you saying that "the Arab world" would not, at this moment, get behind a single- or two-state solution, both of which would "destroy Israel" but leave all Israeli citizens alive and part of a new state arrangement?   That's what I'm hearing, but I want to be sure.

OMG, you're literally advocating for the destruction of Israel here.  Of course they'd be behind that, just as, apparently, you are.  The ability to destroy Israel and then deal with the Jews in their midst with impunity?  Literally a Hamas wish list, and apparently on yours as well.  

I've answered two of your questions, now answer one of mine.  In your proposed "solution" do you really think the Jews currently living in Israel would be treated fairly and without rancor by whatever state and people fills the void of what was once Israel?  Do you really think for one second that they wouldn't be subjected to horrific abuse, at best?

OMG could you stop all the hyperbolic, accusatory drama of recasting peace proposals as calls for destruction?
Especially since you appear to know nothing about either a single- or two-state solution. 

The first includes proposals to create a federal system with differing states, or a single state encompassing Mandatory Palestine in which all residents have full citizenship. (Some argue Israel and the occupied territories are already one-state--an apartheid state; and the settlements in the West Bank mean that the only resolution left is a single state, apartheid being unsustainable.) The second allows Israel to remain as an ethnic, settler state, but grants a the Palestinians a genuinely autonomous state in the West Bank and Gaza. Both proposals would give Palestinians full citizenship rights in a democratic state.

The first proposal would "destroy" the ethnic, apartheid state (which you seem to defend whatever the cost) but it would not "kill-all-the-Jews," as you wish to understand it. As of 2021, 14% of Jewish Israelis backed that solution, along with 56% of Israeli Arabs. https://en.idi.org.il/articles/36108  The second would not destroy the ethnic state. Neither involves a scenario in which someone would or could "deal with the Jews in their midst with impunity."  Neither is on some "Hamas wish list."

But I asked if you if think "the Arab world" would get behind these proposals. You've only granted that on a distorted understanding of the proposed solutions, which you happily attribute to me as well, and your imagined monolithic "Arab word" (discussed in the previous post) motivated only by religious fanaticism. Some of the aforementioned proposals actually come from Israelis who, to use your language would want "the destruction of Israel just like Hamas" if your understanding of the proposals were correct. Remember that people arguing in good faith don't deliberately mis-construct opponents' arguments. That's what you'll be doing from this point on if you keep referring to one- or two-state proposals as expressing some general Arab desire to kill all Jews and supported as such by me.

And I posed the question (which you had to distort to answer) because of your claim the conflict is really about religion, not dispossession and occupation. I'm saying that the majority of "the Arab world" would be happy with a a one- or two-state solution which elevated Palestinians to full possession of their human rights. Some hard core opponents to peace would remain, but they would continue to lose support and be opposed by most current Israeli citizens and Palestinians in the new states--increasingly as they prospered in their new circumstances. That is shown in the willingness of even Saudi Arabia to normalize relations with Israel, provided they can productively address the Palestinian issue.

At this point, the people obstructing potential solutions are those who continue to claim the "real" problem is European-style antisemitism and religious fanaticism--not dispossession and occupation. That's also an argument for an untenable status quo, and future Hamas attacks whose real causes cannot be examined for fear of "blaming Israel" and "excusing Hamas."