Biden now calling for Israel to pause???

[Dill]

(11-18-2023, 05:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Eh, it's already been estimated that one-third of the 11,000 dead in Gaza were from the areas Israel told Palestinians to flee to.

This is my problem with this whole thing. I have zero problem with Israel actually invading Gaza to root out Hamas after October 7th. In fact, I think that they had every right to do so. What I have a problem with is that they tell civilians to flee south to avoid the violence, and then they bomb them in the south. I have a problem with some of the justifications of air strikes on refugee camps. I have a problem with the evidence used to justify the attack on the hospital (a bunch of metal weapons being stored near a giant magnet doesn't seem all that likely). I have a problem with the man who elevated and propped up Hamas all these years now using their existence as a justification for slaughtering thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians and who partners with people in government calling for legitimate ethnic cleansing.

The world tends to run on "proportional responses." Israel's response has not been proportional and in all seriousness is going to do more harm to their existence in the years to come than anything. I mean this in all sincerity, they will probably have to kill every Palestinian at this point because they are going to make terrorists out of those that remain with their actions.

Well said. 

As you know, "proportionality" as a concept is supposed to govern the Jus in Bello aspect of current "Just War Doctrine"; that involves distinguishing between civilians and combatants as well as between levels of applied force. "Minimum force" required to neutralize a military target is the standard.

The weakness of the doctrine is that the aggressor generally decides what is an "acceptable" proportion of civilian to military casualties and what is an acceptable proportion of force.  The problem is exacerbated in asymmetrical warfare covered by modern media, when dropping an entire apt. complex down on 12 families may not have the "proportional" impact of one torture/beheading. 

In this case, the only real restraint I see on Israeli actions is world/US opinion. But the anger of some in the civilian and military command may be so great they do not care. That's what I think we are seeing. The result is, in effect, collective punishment, mitigated/enabled by the claim Hamas uses civilians as human shields. 

To people in the region, arguments like "Hamas uses civilians as human shields" is just Orwellian doublespeak coming from the IDF, but at least over the short term, it's decisive for US and European observers, who still see Israel as "very concerned" to avoid civilian casualties--"unlike Hamas."  But over the long term, the moral high ground currently attributed to the people who created Gaza as an open air prison will erode. 

I don't think Israel will have to kill every Palestinian though. My most optimistic view is that when Netanyahu is finally out, Labour and the left can regain control of the Knesset and work seriously with the UN, US and regional powers to end the occupation A similar response, if encouraged with aid, can happen on the Palestinian side if they see a genuine opening to POLITICAL EQUALITY and peace. Continuing with Hamas invites genocide.