Israel/Hamas War Superthread

[Dill]

(12-20-2023, 10:21 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: I don't see much of an alternative. When the enemy buries themselves within innocent civilians and yet attacks you, I don't see how they can do anything precisely. Especially when they wear civilian clothes. I think we all know what their goal is by doing this, so who's really to blame? They create operations under hospitals for God's sake. There's been a lot of talk about flooding the tunnels and I think that's a good idea. If they are worried about killing innocent hostages that way, it's not much different than killing innocent victims with bombs. 

The US was in a similar situation fighting an unnecessary war in Iraq, and killed a large number of civilians as well--yet proportionately far less than what Israel is doing now. And the reward we reaped for that was ISIS and a return to Iraq.  That's why the US (i.e., our intel/military establishment) does see alternatives. 

20,000 dead is already more than Israel killed in the 1982 Lebanon invasion--the invasion which created Hezbollah--and they aren't half done in Gaza yet. 

As far as "who's to blame?" It comes back to the dispossession and occupation. You drive people off their land, pen them up in an open
air prison denying them citizenship and human rights, then you cannot be surprised when after generations despair and oppression, a small mass of
fighting age males breaks out and inflicts what damage they can. And you cannot be surprised if an insurgent fighting force without tanks and aircraft and no ground separate from civilians "buries themselves in innocent civilians." If Israel votes into office people who consider such realistic assessments "apologies for terrorism" then the cycle will certainly continue. 

The Lebanon War pretty much neutralized the PLO's 15,000 man fighting force--an initial success--but pushed it in the more dangerous (for Israel) direction of diplomatic solution. Within 10 years that physical threat was replaced by Hezbollah, with 25,000 men in uniform and another 40,000+ reservists, all behind sophisticated lines of defense (including anti-aircraft) and one of the worlds largest reserves of state of the art missiles--including smart intermediate-range missiles, not Hamas-style Qassams.

As they watch massive bombing of helpless civilians in Gaza, Israel supporters with some geopolitical sense should be thinking about where Israel's security will be five years from now.  They should be thinking of US security as well, given that we are now joined at the hip with Israel, for both the war and occupation.