12-24-2023, 02:45 PM
(12-24-2023, 01:59 PM)Dill Wrote: Off topic, but to create broader, more accurate context:
Looks like a significant number of Israelis blame IDF policy for the killing of their own hostages.
Critical to this viewpoint is the deliberation required to shoot obviously unarmed people carrying a
white flag, and then killing a wounded hostage after he survived the fist shooting and crawled
into a building crying "help" in Hebrew.
They aren't accepting the "what-can-you-do-when-they-dress-like-civilians" defense. Neither is the UN.
Protesting crowds in Tel Aviv blame the government and the IDF's "shoot first" policy.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-hamas-war-hostages-killed-idf-white-cloth-protests-netanyahu-rcna130049
Father of Slain Hostages Says IDF Murdered Him.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/father-of-slain-hostage-calls-for-him-to-be-recognized-as-fallen-soldier-he-was-a-fighter/
The byline from your NBC article,
"Hundreds took to the streets of Tel Aviv after it emerged that Israel’s soldiers had killed three hostages in Gaza."
Not sure if you know your history, but there were far more than hundreds, fare more, took part in a pro Nazi rally in Manhattan in 1939.
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/20/695941323/when-nazis-took-manhattan
More than 20,000 men and women streamed inside and took their seats. The view they had was stunning: Washington was hung between American flags — and swastikas.
Is the act of protest an automatic validation of what is being protested? I would think not, as the pro-Nazi protest, whose numbers dwarf your example, would illustrate. As for the father of the slain hostage, his anger is understandable, if misplaced. His son would never have been in that position except for the terrorist activities of the dogs of Hamas. But a mourning family member is entitled to mourn as they please and anger is a well known stage of grief.
The interesting thing about your post is that it highlights anti-establishment protest in Israel. The key point being that such protests are allowed in Israel, where even a small group such as yours can protest vehemently against their own government. Such cannot be said for Hamas controlled Gaza, where such protests would invite horrible reprisals. But, please, let us focus on anything but Hamas.
But here we have yet another post of Dill trying to equate the actions of the IDF to Hamas while "not really doing so". In past posts he has equivocated on this, but in this post, in the underlined, he directly accuses the IDF of intentionally shooting these hostages despite knowing what they were. I have attempted to address the fog of war that occurs, especially in an urban environment in which the enemy wears civilian clothes and hides among civilians. But Dill will have none of that. To him a soldier mistakenly killing a hostage was definitively a deliberate act. Why, because it gives him, and others like him, the ability to lessen the horrors of Hamas by focusing attention on the IDF and attempting to draw a parallel. As for my ascribing motives, why not? Dill opened that gate by ascribing a deliberate motive to the IDF soldiers, so ascribing a deliberate motive to him is more than fair using his own rules. I have no patience for those who seek to mitigate terrorists by continually trying to focus the lens, and the discussion on anything but the terrorists.
