Nikki Haley-What was the cause of the Civil War

[Belsnickel]

(01-16-2024, 02:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think if you really break it down to its bare bones the USSR wasn't concerned with either.  They were concerned with being powerful, respected and feared.  Russia has always had an inferiority complex when it comes to Europe.  They wanted to be part of the club and the European nations looked down on them, openly, as a agrarian, uneducated peasant land.  A huge part of Russian foreign diplomacy, to this day, can be attributed to this inferiority complex.  It's why Putin, and others, yearn for the days of the USSR, as it was the only time the nation was respected, albeit in a negative fashion.  When you couple that with the fact that Russia never had a tradition of free thinking or even a desire to engage in liberal (in the classic sense of the world, not the US label) politics, you get this tend towards authoritarianism.  Freedom is scary, as we all remember from the first months after moving out of our parent's home, especially when you have no history or familiarity with it.

I would disagree. Sure, there was a large element of that in the latter years especially, but it wasn't always just a concern for one-upping the west. Sure, there was a good bit of that, but keep in mind how the revolution really kicked off and the intention behind it. I say this, though, and my wife's opinion on this when I discussed this conversation with her just now was that it was the whole "power corrupts" thing, to which I retorted that doesn't fly when it was corrupt from the start. Regardless, they did engage in the more left-wing economic policies despite not being liberal in any sense of the word.

(01-16-2024, 02:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think a large part of that can be attributed to WW2.  Far right autocracies were rightly vilified and their crimes widely exposed after WW2.  The equally awful atrocities of the far left were largely hidden, overshadowed, or ignored.  Let's also be honest, the West tended to not care much what happened to the people in China, the USSR, North Korea or Cambodia.  Or Vietnam after we left.  If you correctly equate the two, the crimes of the USSR are absolutely on par with Nazi Germany, but a person will proudly walk down the street wearing the hammer and sickle on their t-shirt.  Che Guevara was a monster of a human being (and vehemently anti-homosexual btw), but the fact that his crimes are largely unknown and he is seen as a fighter against the oppression of capitalism make him an icon for left leaning younger people to this day.

Yeah, but we saw this prior to WW2, as well. I mean, Hitler called his party socialist while hating communists so much he reneged on his alliance and put communists in death camps.

(01-16-2024, 02:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It would be very interesting though to see any self proclaimed Marxist in a western nation be teleported to the USSR or modern day North Korea.  They'd be begging for a return to their home nation within a day or two.

Depends. Do they understand the difference between the different flavors of communism?