02-17-2024, 10:56 PM
(02-17-2024, 07:49 AM)Dill Wrote: You do realize that Rafah is still in Gaza, right? The people who fled Gaza are refugees now living with the refugees already living in Gaza. People trapped in the Strip are simply being herded from one part to another, while their homes are being destroyed.
Y.ou seem to think that Palestinians trapped in the Gaza strip can just walk out of Gaza if they want to, without the permission of Israel or Egypt.
As if Gaza were a sovereign ("Nazi-controlled") state, not a territory of stateless people under Israeli control since 1967.
That suggests to me that you do not have basic knowledge of this conflict, its history and what is at stake for each of the players.
Never thought I'd be in a thread against Sociopathissteelerfan, Belsnickel and Dil. A monumental task indeed.
So, a couple things to address here.
You know me better than that Dill. I know it's been a while since we've traded tl;dr paragraphs, but come on. Yes, I do know that "Gaza" is more technically termed as "The Gaza Strip" and not "Gaza" as in a single location known as Gaza City within the Gaza Strip, but rather a wider territory between Egypt and Israel.
My point was not to say they "left Gaza" as in the territory. I'm completely aware there's closed borders to be crossed and that you can't just cosplay illegal immigrants coming to the US.
The point I was making is that they made a choice, and that choice was that they decided they were not going to let themselves die with Hamas in Gaza City. So, they gathered whatever they could and high tailed it out of there. Why? Because they were smart enough to know that if you live amongst a group of people who want to commit genocide then you better run for the hills when those genocidal maniacs decide to attack the ones whom they wish to commit genocide against.
The "Nazi controlled state" statement was a figure of speech. I know the Gaza Strip isn't a sovereign nation, nor was I ever trying to imply that. You're attempting to complicate something that doesn't need to be complicated by lecturing me on the history of the Palestinian and Israeli conflict as if all of that matters.
I’m not here to play tit for tat Dill, because again, the displacement, the incursions, the blockades, the occupation, the accords, none of that matters in relation to what I am saying.
The basis of my entire argument concerns genocidal intentions realized by literal actions and how the opposition decides to respond to it.
You can go through the history of the conflict and complain about Jewish occupation all you want, but it's irrelevant to the argument. It's as simple a question as this.
Does Hamas want to annihilate Israel and has stated so? Yes.
Have they violently attacked Israel and killed innocent people as a means to show their genocidal intentions? Yes.
Therefore, if Israel decides to respond by completely obliterating Hamas, and the way for them to do that is by killing Hamas and destroying any capabilities they have of carrying out their genocidal intentions, then anyone who does not want to die should do their best to flee to somewhere that Israel is less likely to target until the conflict is over. If Israel really wanted to kill everyone, they would have done it already.
(02-17-2024, 08:31 AM)Dill Wrote: Some additional points are required to square your house analogy with current situation in Gaza.
First, many decades ago, your family took the house you are now living in from the grandparents of the 20 or so people living across the street in the other house, and you killed them in the process, forcing their children to flee for fear of rape and death.
You have surrounded that other house with walls and barbed wire fencing, and now completely control access to the other house, plus food, water, medicine, electricity and trade with other homeowners in the area. You permit two of them to work for you occasionally, mowing your lawn or cleaning your house. If any try to leave the house across the street without your permission, you arrest or shoot them. You have a prison in your basement in which you keep those arrested.
Not everyone in the other house is down with the arrangement. Some want their grandparents' house back and are ready to die fighting for it. They take pot shots at your family. You have a helicopter gunship and can respond with overwhelming force, killing 10 of theirs for every one of yours. Others in that house are tired of living in fear of your gunship and armed guards, and would be happy if you just let them have what's left of the house they have now, allow them full ownership and control of it.
But you don't want that because you don't trust the people whose house you took to live peacefully beside you. Best you can do is keep them divided and fighting themselves. Make sure the most militant among them--the "Nazis"--get preferential funding from outside sources. The rest are "cowards" if they don't fight the Nazis. They have "chosen to live under tyranny."
And what I'm telling you is none of that matters within the confines of the argument being presented here. I am not concerned with who has done bad/questionable/immoral etc... actions against who in an ongoing conflict. What I am concerned with is who wants to commit genocide against who and have they acted on it.
Quote:"Decided to stay."What? People walled and fenced in didn't break out of their prison and rush into Israeli guns?
Yes, they are absolutely deciding to stay. If 1 million people flee an area and you stay there and die, you chose that. You're acting like Israeli soldiers have been commanded to mow down every Palestinian on sight or that there's absolutely no place to go where they can increase their chances of survival.
