Israel/Hamas War Superthread

[Dill]

(03-10-2024, 03:24 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, I don't, disingenuous point number one.  I argue that a direct attempt to equate them with Hamas, as you routinely do, are attempts to equate them.  You literally did exactly this in you last post.

No, I don't, disingenuous point number two.  I have specifically stated in this thread I have zero issue discussing wrongdoings by the IDF.  What I do, have, and will continue to have issue with is a one sided discussion of their wrongdoings while ignoring those of Hamas, or how those contribute to civilian casualties, as well as any attempt to define the two as equally bad actors, as you routinely do, have done, and will continue to do.

LOL what I "routinely do, have done, and will continue to do" is demonstrate that you are misinformed about the history of the conflict, 
largely because you self-censor your own intake of information. 

If you had "zero issue discussing wrongdoings by the IDF" then you'd not be framing people who discuss IDF "wrongdoings" as a "Hamas supporters." 

And if you define reporting/criticism of Israeli/IDF conduct as eo ipso "a direct attempt to equate them with Hamas," then "one-sided discussion" is exactly the goal.

(03-10-2024, 03:24 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, it doesn't, disingenuous point number three.  As described above your consistent equating of Hamas to the IDF is the issue.  If you take issue with being called out for spreading Hamas propaganda, then stop spreading Hamas propaganda.
 
Not sure what you think you're accomplishing here, other than a pathetic attempt to form a group of terrorist sympathizers around you that don't actually exist.  Anyone who's actually read the posts I've made know my issue with your consistent apologist rhetoric for Hamas.  But bet away, I'd definitely be interested in the results.

Accurate labeling cannot, by definition, be name calling.  You, in your very last post, equate Hama to the right wing of Israeli politics.  In so doing you directly illustrate my main issue with your whitewashing of Islamic extremists and terrorist apologism.  I know you've exhausted your repertoire of BS, because you're now completely ignoring direct points and engaging in Dill circuitous arguments.  We know you don't see Hamas as bad guys, or at least as only as bad as the Israelis.  Quite dissembling and own it, it couldn't be more obvious.

As any junior high principal could tell you, "accurate labeling" certainly can be name-calling, but the real question here is, who is labeling accurately? 

The accuracy of political labels is never self-evident, and when someone deflects questions about his labels while simultaneously deploying them to prevent discussion, then accuracy is very much in doubt.

E.g., what you call "Hamas propaganda" makes the label so general that it implicitly defines the accurate reporting of international reporters/observers as "support for terrorism." Meaning the only way to avoid that label is to NOT report/discuss what the IDF actually does in Gaza. That's clear enough for anyone who has "actually read the posts [you] have made."  

There is no place where I describe Hamas and Israel as "equally bad actors." That claim simply assumes what it should be proving, namely that any recognition/criticism of IDF war crimes eo ipso creates "equivalence" and is "support for terrorism."  The logic of that is structurally parallel to a claim that recognition of war crimes by the Union Army in Georgia in 1865 "equates" the Union with the Confederacy and "whitewashes" slavery.  I doubt even you would buy that, yet you cannot explain why it is suddenly "Hamas equivalence" when IDF war crimes are on the dock.  "Just is" somehow, and you are going to "call it out" rather than waste time explaining what is so special and different about the IDF case that makes it imperative for Americans to accept IDF propaganda without question.

Calling the right wing of Israeli politics a "mirror image" of Hamas in Palestinian politics should invite analysis and discussion, not shut it down with pre-emptive labels.
"Are there right wing Israelis who, like Hamas, want to eradicate their neighbors in toto, and do their politics affect IDF conduct?" should be a valid line of questioning, subject to confirmation/disconfirmation via evidence-based discussion--unless criticism/exposure of Israel is forbidden by definition.

Simply re-repeating that "criticism of IDF war crimes equates them with Hamas," and claiming I'm somehow "ignoring" your points as you ignore arguments refuting them, is what makes for "circuitous argument."