Democrats losing all credibility in denial of overwhelming evidence..

[hollodero]

(03-29-2024, 08:50 AM)Dill Wrote: I keeping thinking we are on the same page with most of this. But the bolded makes me unsure. I'm not aware of anyone who says "disagree and you're with Trump,"

Weird, I see that happening all the time.

(03-29-2024, 08:50 AM)Dill Wrote: So both sides do it? Black people can massacre too? 

I find that to be a loaded example that does not represent my stance. And the same goes for the other examples you listed.

(03-29-2024, 08:50 AM)Dill Wrote: If you approach this persuasive task constantly mentioning or admitting that, of course, Dems have their bad guys too, then I fear that works more like a Regnery Press book. The targets of persuasion hear "both sides do it" when, on the most critical issue of threatening democracy, one side is manifestly NOT doing it. Whether some Dems are corrupt or say nice things about a BLM riot is not the issue. We are making arguments in a politicized media environment in which it is in one side's interest to deflate the threat, primarily via serial equivalence. 

So this might illustrate the difference of opinion most clearly. For one, I think you're right, there is a clear danger from the right that is unique. I don't think that what Trump did in respect to the elections, or in respect to thrive for a dictator-like reign in general, is comparable to things Abrams or Hillary or whoever important from the democrats stated or aims for. And I sure say so, loudly and clearly and time and again. I'm not advocating to let narratives full of false equivalencies and faulty parallels just stand uncommented to comfort those who make or follow these points. You, however, imho take it a step further. Eg by associating mentioning "bad guys" on the left with some historic parallel from the civil war that isn't all that similar. I would advocate to just keep it real, to keep it real as you'd bold it, that's all. And part of that is, of course, claiming that the Trump-infested GOP is indeed worse in many respects, including highly important ones. However, I don't find it to be dangerous or unwise to mention (or "admit" as you put it) all the things that are (often subjectively, at times more objectively) wrong with the left and I feel it makes my stances more credible, not less effective. You claim it is "not the issue" multiple times, reaction to BLM is not the issue, who's worse is "of no consequence" etc, but of course for people these are issues and I find it highly convenient to claim "for the good of the country they better not be". That will persuade no one and imho gets blatantly close to giving all things liberal a wide reaching carte blanche on the sole basis that Trump is worse and more dangerous. Imho, this attitude contributes quite a lot to him not getting less popular.

I am aware that we will probably never see eye to eye on this issue, so I will leave it be.