04-27-2024, 09:37 PM
(04-27-2024, 08:07 PM)Dill Wrote: The challenge of responding to you is first and foremost sorting out the muddle of projection and misdirection.
First point to make: no one is arguing that no Hamas are in Palestinian jails. Again you are refuting an argument that doesn't exist. My argument is that advocating to free imprisoned Palestinians does not make protestors "advocates for Hamas" just because some Hamas might be imprisoned too. Protestors think the occupation is illegal and the thousands jailed under its military rule are illegally imprisoned. They are advocating for the human rights of those thousands of innocents.
You asked "What children?" Since you weren't "informed" (as the protestors undoubtedly are) that Israel routinely arrests children, claps them in irons, and holds them for days, weeks and months without a hearing, all that "needs to be established" is that there are children, hundreds, in Israeli detention, and the IDF has been doing this for decades. I've established that.
Israeli law does not go by your definition of a child. It accepts the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, which defines a "child" as anyone under 18. https://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/crc/docs/crc-c-opac-isr-co-1.pdf Israel arrests and prosecutes children from age 12 up.
The boy detained in the picture accompanying this article is 10 years old.
880 Palestinian children detained by Israel this year: NGO
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231120-880-palestinian-children-detained-by-israel-this-year-ngo/
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/palestinian-children-israeli-military-detention-report-increasingly-violent-conditions
As far as "how many children are wrongfully imprisoned"? If you think the occupation and military courts are legal, then all of them are. But even
if you consider military rule and detention legal, there's still a problem. Thousands of Palestinians were detained before Oct. 7 and many have been
held without charge for years. Israelis can extend detention without public explanation. There is no transparency.
As of Sept. '23, 146 children were in custody. https://www.btselem.org/statistics/minors_in_custody.
In the last 5 months that number has increased by hundreds.
Israel holds over 1,200 detainees without charge. That’s the most in 3 decades, a rights group says [99% Palestinian]
https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinians-west-bank-793a3b2a1ce8439d08756da8c63e5435
So, not being informed that hundreds of children have been and continued to be imprisoned in Israel, under a system of military rule which does not accord them the same basic rights as Israeli or US citizens, you fill this vacuum of knowledge with speculation about Hamas training not-really-children to commit really heinous offenses of which they are certainly "guilty." THAT must be how so many get arrested. Like MS 13 (which I believe you have also accused me of "supporting").
But according to virtually every human rights organization monitoring the arrest of Palestinian children, they mostly land in jail for violating "military orders" which restrict what we call 1A rights. Also many are stonethrowers resisting occupation. Here's an eyewitness account of a 14 year-olds arrest from a Time reporter in 2012 https://time.com/6366734/palestinian-child-detainees/
Here's a report from 2018. Israel/OPT: Ahed Tamimi release a bittersweet moment as other Palestinian children languish in Israeli jails
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/07/ahed-tamimi-release-a-bittersweet-moment-as-other-palestinian-children-languish-in-israeli-jails/
The Israeli army prosecutes hundreds of Palestinian children in military courts every year, often after arresting them in night raids and systematically subjecting them to ill-treatment, including blindfolding, threats, harsh interrogations without the presence of their lawyers or families, solitary confinement and in some cases physical violence.
Military courts prosecute Palestinians for violating military orders, many of which criminalize peaceful activities such as peaceful political expression or organizing and attending protests without prior permission from an Israeli military commander.
I'll reiterate, since you didn't answer. How many actual children are in Israeli prison? Please note that juvenile detention is not the same as adult detention, there are thousands of juveniles detained in the US as well. A child is a person under fourteen years old, so again, please provide those numbers. I don't think a sane person here would agree that a 17-year-old is a child.
Also, pleas note it is very apparent that you're trying to shift the conversation. The college kids trying to free all Palestinian prisoners are not solely concerned with the prisoners under 18, they want all the Hamas terrorists freed.
