Israel/Hamas War Superthread

[Dill]

(05-01-2024, 07:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sounds like you are saying that when a more powerful group is in conflict with a less powerful group,
students can't really tell or aren't really interested in whether the more powerful group is actually oppressing
the less powerful group.  I wonder where you are getting that.
Seems to me the history of protests shows the students generally get it right.
-civil rights, Vietnam, Apartheid,

From paying attention.

Below you appear to grant the students were right about civil rights and Apartheid.
So in those cases, students figured out the more powerful group really was oppressing a less powerful group?

If "paying attention" led you to conclude students just assume, without justification, that the
more powerful group is the oppressor only because it is more powerful, then there must have been 
some times where you saw them protesting more powerful groups that weren't oppressors.

Vietnam maybe?

(05-01-2024, 07:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Were they right about Vietnam?  I'm sure the thousands of people tortured and sent to "reeducation" camps after the war might have a different opinion.
You keep trying to lump this is with the civil rights movement.  No one here, or pretty much anywhere, is buying it.   I'm sure the pro-Hamas protestor in the post your ignoring agrees with, though.  She also approved of 10/07/23 and thought it was a good thing.

I once knew an ARVN general who had been tiger-caged under Diem and then sent to a "reeducation camp" after the NV victory.
Seriously, I couldn't tell which he thought was worse. The reeducation was longer, but not life threatening.

So who were the "oppressors" in that war? Apparently the vast majority of Vietnamese thought the US and the gov. of South Vietnam were.
Most of the 2 million civilians who died would be of that opinion.

But American anti-communists would have been happy to sacrifice millions more to prevent their "oppression" by the Communists 
they would have elected to rule them if the US had allowed them to make their own choices in the first place.

Call that one a tie.  2-0-1 in favor of the students. But no evidence THEY are the ones who misread Oppressor/Oppressed relations.

(05-01-2024, 07:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You keep trying to lump this is with the civil rights movement.  No one here, or pretty much anywhere, is buying it.   I'm sure the pro-Hamas protestor in the post your ignoring agrees with, though.  She also approved of 10/07/23 and thought it was a good thing.

And yes I keep lumping the Palestinian dispossession in with the Civil Rights movement, because it is about how the Israeli state deprives 5 million
Palestinians of basic human rights.  But see that point you must first agree that Palestinians have basic human rights.

Speaking for everyone again. How do you know "no one here, or pretty much anywhere, is buying it"?

So why are there protests all over the world? Why has SA brought a genocide charge against Israel to the ICJ?

(05-01-2024, 07:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Hmm, must have missed where the IDF did these things.  I couldn't miss when Hamas did it, because they happily broadcast it.  I notice you chose not to comment on the kidnapping and murder of infants.  I'd probably try and pretend it didn't happen too if I were delusional enough to be on your side of this issue.

I notice you didn't comment on the 13,000 children who have died in Gaza.

I was referring to the ethnic cleansing during the original dispossession. I'm not sure the Haganah or the IDF kidnapped people. Their goal was to get rid of them. But Stern and Irgun did kidnap people, and happily broadcast murder and rape; they even inflated the numbers to increase panic. At least 30 infants were murdered at Deir Yassin alone.  But I have explained this to you before. You didn't "miss" that. But down the memory hole, eh?

Now the UN is investigating credible reports of IDF sexual assaults against detained Palestinians, including many forms of torture and humiliation. Let's give them time to investigate their "anecdotes."