Israel/Hamas War Superthread

[Dill]

(05-23-2024, 11:46 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As you admit, this is very much a chicken or the egg argument.  One thing that cannot be denied is that, whatever the reason and impetus, the people of Gaza elected a terrorist organization to lead them.  One with explicitly expressed genocidal intent.  Without the wall how many more thousands of Israeli citizens would be raped, kidnapped and murdered?

The Palestinians did not drive Israelis from their land and box them in Gaza, then build a wall to protect from reprisal for that theft. 

This looks "very much a chicken or the egg argument" only when you start with effects to deny causes.

(05-23-2024, 11:46 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: We both agree there is no obvious good guy here in terms of who did what to who first.  At the end of the day we have to deal with the situation as it exists, right now.  That being the case there is clearly a side to support and clearly a side to condemn.  It certainly doesn't give Israel a blank check to act as they please, but turning a blind eye to the deliberate actions of Hamas in terms of civilian casualties is to hand them a huge win.  The ICC absolutely blew it here by treating them as equal actors, once again the West handing Hamas a huge propaganda victory.  

Unless one is hopelessly embedded in EITHER/OR, investigating Israel for war crimes along with Hamas is not  eo ipso
"turning a blind eye to the deliberate actions of Hamas." 

It would be Israel's free fire zones which handed Hamas a "huge propaganda victory," if there were such, but there isn't. 
Hamas is a pariah among Muslim nations now; all wish to be rid of them. 

Israel and the IDF are much more skilled at manipulating US opinion than Hamas, as evidenced by the constant repetition of their propaganda
in forums like this. E.g., in Israel, IDF use of civilian hostages has been front and center in Israeli in-house debates and policy for almost three decades
now. "Hamas uses human shields" and "Civilians deaths are Hamas strategy" are for foreign consumption.