Clearing Up Trump Trial Misinformation

[Dill]

(06-08-2024, 11:40 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: .Source for your "incorrect" claim, please. Referencing someone's "entire posting history" won't do. Cite name, thread and post.
No, I don't really care to search for examples, but I will surprise you.  

Your not caring to search for examples doesn't surprise me. And not caring is not having. This is the epistemic equivalent of a bounced check.

(06-08-2024, 11:40 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm also referencing people who don't believe 01/06 was a bad thing. 

Sure, more examples for which you don't care to search. I'm no longer accepting checks. Cash from now on. ok?

A third of your lengthy post is unsecured "evidence" of various kinds. E.g. Impressions, unsupported assertions etc. Including a final paragraph free-associating to whatever you don't like about Capitol police and Dems, designated (without embarrassment!) as "the cherry on top." 

(06-08-2024, 11:40 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:   Also, I see you dodged the whole committing arson on an occupied police precinct rather than actually address it.  Probably the smart move on your part.

And two thirds is you continuing to prove what was never in dispute, namely that the Floyd riots led to more property damage than the Capitol riots. 
That's why I ''dodged" what was never the issue. I'm addressing your discussion of stats in a different post. 

So to recap: The topic of this thread is "Clearing up Trump Trial misinformation."  The core of that misinformation --disinformation really--is that Trump is an innocent man convicted by Biden's weaponized DOJ and the "fake news" media.  In response to FBR wondering whether riots would have followed an acquittal, Luvnit asserted that unlike ANTIFA and Floyd rioters, THE RIGHT IS ON A MISSION OF PEACE. 

That's already off center. A logical comparison of Trump and his GOP and Biden and his Democrats, to assess the prime actors' inclination to violence, would have to focus on, at least-- 

1. Biden's character. Did he instigate a plot to overthrow a valid election which lead to a riot, death and destruction, and over 900 felony convictions? Did he float the possibility of pardoning felons convicted in the Floyd riots? Call them "patriots"? His son is in court now. Is Biden doxing the judge's family? Calling the legal system a sham? The prosecutor "deranged" and a "dumb son-of-a-*****, while warning us all that his followers or "the nation" won't tolerate a guilty verdict? Or is he promising to abide by the verdict, and NOT to use his office for personal goals, e.g., pardoning his son. 

2. Dem leaders' behavior: are they calling the system a "scam," the press "liars," and taking time out of Congress to show up at the courthouse to show solidarity? Are they normalizing and legitimating their presidents violent rhetoric? Or are they too saying "let the system work"? Regarding the Floyd riots, did they make a show of supporting those convicted of violence and property destruction, like visiting them in prison? Did they attribute the violence to FBI plants or MAGA protestors operating under false flag? 

3. Regarding past non-MAGA violence in the country, did Biden direct any of that? I.e., call BLM to march to a police precinct and "take your country back"? or tell ANTIFA to "Stand back and Stand by?" Did BLM members then speak of responding to the president's call? If the answer to those questions is no, then equivalence fails.

When I noted that Trump himself did not seem to be on board with that MISSION OF PEACE, given his flouting gag orders and endangering family members of court officers, you could have affirmed your support for the rule of law there, but went instead with the false equivalence between the Floyd and Capitol riots, famously crafted in 2020 by Hannity and Fox friends--who also happen to be the primary engines of the current Trump trial disinformation this thread was intended to address. You refer to my "type" and my "side." Is Fox your side then? The Trump right? Or are just offering "balance" using their whattabout? 

And when I further flagged your imprecise use of the term "leftist," which collects all manner of non-aligned actors into one bag responsible for riots, reminded you that "mostly peaceful" is not some "leftist standard," and explained what the actual term of comparison was, you unleashed a firehose of abusive language, at one point positioning yourself, hivemind-like, as speaking for all forum members except my "cabal." Nevermind that most of the people you respect in the forum do not ascribe to the BLM whattabout. While that far right from which you distance yourself does ascribe to it. That's basically your "we" on this issue--virtually everyone who regularly attacks "leftists." But it's "pathetic" if I associate you with the right.

Still attempting to explain why "leftists" think the Capitol riot more consequential than billions of dollars of property damage in Portland or Minneapolis, I switched from the broken windows figure to the body analogy--a stroke vs a broken arm--and your response was to continue to affirm, figuratively speaking, that the broken arm involved way more tissue damage.  

(06-08-2024, 11:40 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: "The left's own standards" center on the fact that the Capitol riot originated in, and was led from, the highest office in the land--a direct threat to democracy from and to the executive center of our political system. So many essential differences here: Biden did not call all the protesters together and give them a target, then call the violent protestors "patriots" and consider pardoning those who received prison sentences, thus affirming his continuing connection to them and legitimation of lawless behavior. 
And the threat to democracy is still there, as the disinformation machine which set the capitol riot in motion is still running full throttle. Bels' thread here is an attempt to address one aspect of that machine in the most careful and systematic terms. It will be interesting to see how that works out. The false equivalences will continue to come, to normalize and legitimate an anti-democratic politics.
I'm sure your ideological distinction is a tremendous comfort to the families and friends of those who were murdered.  The point rather being that the level of violence on 01/06 was on par, if not less, than numerous BLM riots.
Yes, we understand your position here as well as your desire to minimize the actions of your ideological compatriots in comparison to the 01/06 riot.  I can only reiterate the fact that what Dill finds to be more important doesn't negate facts.  Facts such as the billions in property damage, the many people "injured" and the people killed during these protests.

I could also assert that some unspecified "we" understands YOUR desire to minimize the actions of your ideological compatriots in comparison to the Floyd protests. That SSF finds property damage (and/ or body counts) to be more important doesn't negate the fact that Trump tried to overturn an election and continues to threaten democracy. etc. But I find such "we understand" assertions completely null as evidence; no support for rational argument. 

Simply claiming to understand someone's "desire" is no form of proof, even asserted from some hivemindish 1st person plural. That's what external evidence is for. When you do get around to offering something like external evidence (billions in property damage; arson of a police station), it's about what isn't in dispute, namely that more property damage followed from the Floyd protests that turned to riots than at the Capitol, where for the first time in history a US election almost fell to a coup.