06-24-2024, 12:32 PM
(06-24-2024, 07:29 AM)pally Wrote: Sorry, but in my opinion, “very fine people” aren’t protesting along side neo-nazis just to protect a statue of a man, who fought against the US for the right to keep human beings as slaves by leading the confederate army.
It is always a song and dance with Trump. He always has to be prompted to condem hate and even then there always seems to be a qualifier that detracts from the condemnations.
Using your own logic that means every single person protesting the war in Gaza is a Hamas supporter, because there's damn sure are a fair number of those at every one of those protests. Now, if they went to the first protest, saw a bunch of neo-Nazis and then decided to keep coming back knowing they would be elbow to elbow with those people then you'd start to have a point.
(06-24-2024, 08:53 AM)hollodero Wrote: Well, you say "lie", I wonder if that is the appropriate term here. A lie would be to explicitely deny that there was a condemnation by Trump. There were at least two, that much is correct, whoever states there was none says a falsehood. Imho though there's a credibility problem for many, and that is because of Trump's general conduct in that affair. For one, he sure tried to defend the people that were marching alongside Nazis and white supremacists, and that alone left a sour taste for me too. Then he talked way more about Antifa and left-wing bad people than he ever talked about the people actually committing the awful deeds in Charlottesville, it was a display of whataboutism. He seemed way more enraged about the press painting a bad picture of the unite the right rallye goers than he ever was about the David Duke's, the chants and the murder. A description you used yourself, that describes my view on this, is that Trump just did enough for plausible deniability, but his earnesty was put in question and I for one can see why. That those allegedly condemned fully supported Trump anyway - and how Trump once tried to claim he doesn't know who David Duke is and things like that - just added to that picture. And all that - as he says - led Biden to a moral evaluation of the situation. Imho it's not about true or false in the first place, but about a personal moral judgment that is a bit beyond the facts. For sure, as stated he also got his facts wrong when explicitly talking about 'no condemnation' or that Trump explicitly called Neo-Nazis fine people (he did not, he called some of those marching with them 'fine people'), but that was not what pally was talking about and it was not what Charlottesville was about for many.
No, lie is absolutely the correct term. This was debunked years ago and has been repeated as truth ever since until now. Carville recently reiterated it on Bill Maher, and was rightfully called out for it. They know it's not true, yet they repeat it, thus it is a lie. I don't disagree with you that Trump did not phrase it well, which is rather typical of him. As for the whataboutism, I'm fine with pointing that out as long as it is done consistently. You condemn all violent riots, not everyone else does.
At the end of the day we're back to an old point of mine. Trump says so much actually ridiculous stuff that making up, twisting or otherwise embellishing others not only makes zero sense, but actually provides cover for him.
