06-11-2015, 11:06 PM
(06-11-2015, 05:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:Quote:Had we stayed out of WW1 .... They would have negotiated a reasonable surrender. That would have allowed Germans to save some dignity in their surrender.Well we didn't and we couldn't have stayed out of WWI no matter who was president at the time. Like I said France and Britain are the ones that wanted a harsh surrender. No reason to believe they would've done otherwise even if we hadn't been involved.
Quote:And to wrap up the last couple of your posts.... For me it's not about slamming wilson because he was a democrat.... I am more upset he radically changed our foreign policy, which we will use today, I am tired of meddling to the point where we go into debt to pad profits of corporations, hedge funds, etc. As far as conservative commentary from Beck and others ..... You throw away arguments based on them coming from him and others you think have an agenda... Not sure taking history as its written and connecting the dots since is an agenda. It's good we found flaws, it means we have woken up.... Now as far as how Wilson is viewed by academics .... He was an academic, and there has been a faction of academics who forget to teach the bad stuff. This was a dark time In history, yes there were some positives of the progressive era ... But to deny that we didn't lose individual freedoms or that we all of sudden became interested in "spreading democracy throughout the world" .... Would not be genuine. Wilson and FDR both needed help to get us into war. The congress nor the people wanted war. That was clear.See But it is about slamming Wilson, like I said it's the "in thing" for conservative libertarians. Which is fine they can rant and rave about it if it makes them feel better. And you're right I will throw away arguments by Beck and those of his ilk as well. He definitely has an agenda and it's not just to tell you history, it's to SELL you history on half truths and hyperbole.
Now you'll get no argument from me that FDR and Wilson had flaws, absolutely they did, but so did every single president in our history. If you remember my post in which I railed against Coolidge? It's not because I hate the guy, I was actually making a point. I deliberately left out every single positive thing I could find about the guy, which is exactly what you and Beck were doing with FDR and Wilson. I certainly don't see it as dark time in history, I can see how a you would though. Lots of social reform going on. Wilson and FDR didn't get "help" as you put it. Neither one wanted anything to with the wars in Europe. Not only were neither president given a choice but neither was congress or the American people. Either fight back or don't fight back
Quote:Personally I think the era was interesting because of all the things that were glossed over .... This was a dark time in history.So much change happened during this time, is why I find it interesting.
Quote:In the end it depends on how you feel the country should be ran.. If you love the UN type apparatus, nation building, spreading democracy, then you love Wilson, FDR types. Bush in Iraq, bailouts, Obama is doing the same thing with TPP, the iran deal, the UN climate, bailouts, so if you don't mind losing your ind. freedoms for the betterment of the whole then your not gonna see this as anything but nonsense.The only nonsense I find at the moment is your belief that things are so black and white, this or that. Politics and the world around us are much more nuanced and complex.
Quote:Honestly would be interesting to see who you think are the best preaidents. Top 3 or if you need more go ahead.Some of my favorites (I don't like the term best, that pretty subjective) are FDR, TR, JFK, Ronnie, Lincoln, and Jefferson. There are many more that I find fascinating. There is only one US President that I really dislike and don't think history will ever be kind to and that is Andrew Johnson.
Personally I like Grover Cleveland and Calvin Coolidge.
