10-12-2016, 09:30 PM
Quote:Let's get some clarity here.
Cooper reminded Trump that bragging about groping women was bragging about sexual assault. Trump said that talking about groping women, as he plainly was, was not talking about sexual assault; just "locker room talk." I said he does not get the distinction, does not recognize what actions are legally definable as sexual assault. (And I further say he does not get it even if he was ONLY trying to make Bush laugh.)
Clearly you're the one that needs some clarity here. Let me break this down for you.
What you are doing is making an invalid argument. Why is your argument invalid? Because it makes false presumptions. You argument goes like this....
1. Trump said he gropes women.
2. Groping women is sexual assault.
3. Trump said he gropes women, therefore he is a sexual assaulter.
First of all, Trump never said he randomly goes around groping women . Trump said women will let you do anything to them when you're famous and continued in what sounded like a joking manner saying the infamous "grab em' by the *****" line. Trump never said he actually grabs women by the *****. He made the statement that women will let you do that. Regardless..... lets say Trump actually did say "I randomly grope women all the time". There's still a problem with your second premise that "Groping women is sexual assault". Well actually, no it isn't. Groping women without their CONSENT is sexual assault. Groping in itself is not sexual assault. It depends on the scenario in which the groping takes place.
People have made the word "groping" synonymous with "sexual assault" and that's the problem. When people start talking about "groping" they've already made up in their mind that whatever "groping" incident took place was sexual assault. But as I have already stated you have no idea who Trump has groped (if anyone) nor do you know whether or not the groping was consensual. You are assuming Trump goes around randomly groping women without their consent but have no proof of this, nor has Trump said he goes around randomly groping women without their consent.
Also keep in mind that consent does not mean someone will say "yeah you can grope me" as a way of showing consent. For some reason people seem to think that's what "consent" means, a verbal agreement. What a joke. Tell me what women (or man) you have verbally agreed to kiss before doing so.
Quote: And you "correct" me by pointing out "All [the video] proves is that Trump thinks what he was talking about is just locker room talk." I.e., that he does not see a distinction between bragging about sexual assault and "just locker room talk." I.e., Exactly what I said.
What are you talking about? You're missing the point. There was no distinction to miss because what Trump said is NOT sexual assault. It depends on the context of the situation that determines whether or not the "groping" was sexual assault, not the groping itself. Someone could tell you "Hey man, I was with this woman last night and groped her so hard" and you would think it's sexual assault simply because he said he groped her because you have your rape culture hearing aids in.
I will say this again. Groping is NOT sexual assault. Groping without consent is. But you have no idea who has and who hasn't consented to anything Trump has done or possibly done to them. All you can do is fantasize in your mind how the "groping" took place and conclude that it either was or wasn't sexual assault, but either way it does not mean your conclusion is absolutely the right one.
Quote:You say that I assume "he was saying he literally assaults women." Yes I do, if he says he was groping them, he was literally saying that.
That would be true if groping was sexual assault. Saying you groped someone is not the same as saying you literally sexually assaulted them. Groping can be both consensual and non-consensual. If Trump said "I grope women without their consent" then yeah, he would be saying he literally sexually assaults them.
Quote:But for you it's all fuzzy. You are not sure what he literally said or meant or whatever. If he literally he says he groped women then I am just "pulling" that out of his statement, like the literal meaning is only an interpretation. Wait, maybe he was reading lines from a movie script. Were they talking about a movie script when he got off the bus?
No it's not fuzzy and I know exactly what he said. The problem here is that YOU don't see the distinction between sexual assault and groping.
Quote:And you appear to let Trump off the hook because everyone else not running for president has made disgusting comments--admitting that maybe not all have bragged about sexual assault. The big take away for you is that the video alone could not legally convict Trump of sexual assault.
I'm not "letting Trump off the hook". I said that he shouldn't have said what he said. All I'm doing is not joining the "he's definitely a sexual assaulter" club.
Quote:If someone applies for a job as a teacher in a grade school, and then a video surfaces in which he brags of fondling children and how he gets away with it because he is an adult, would you say the video proves exactly nothing, we have no idea what he really meant, and go ahead an hire him? We are never going to do away with child abuse/sexism.
I can't believe you just said that.
First of all, a man talking about screwing women is way more normal than a man talking about fondling children because men are supposed to be attracted to women, so it wouldn't be all that surprising to hear a man make degrading comments about women. I don't know any group of men who ever talk about fondling children or when fondling children has ever been normally discussed among men (joking or not joking). If a guy is talking about fondling children, then obviously there's something wrong with him because men are not normally attracted to children.
Now, with that said. Does that mean the guy talking about fondling children is a child molester? Nope it doesn't.
GASP!!! REALLY!!???
Yep, really. There's something called mental illness. Just because a man is talking about fondling children doesn't mean he has actually fondled children. It could mean he's a mentally unstable person who thinks talking about fondling children is normal. Now, if some kid said he was fondled by this man and this man was caught on camera talking about how he specifically fondled that child, then yes, he is definitely a child molester because he just admitted to actually molesting someone.
Trump did not admit to sexually assaulting anyone. He made some generalized broad statement about women and all the rape culturists are up in arms about it because they're sensitive to the word "*****".
