--- Election in Austria

[hollodero]

(12-04-2016, 03:53 PM)Dill Wrote: Europe has been out of my scope for so many years. When you mentioned that divided election, though, I got very interested in Austria and went to the Die Presse website, hoping to get some back ground. I read a couple articles, mostly about chances lost (Irmgaard Griss) and tsk-tsking about folks getting all worked up over "Spaltpilze". Some sensible stuff, but I wanted to find out more about the candidates and voters "Meinungen", so I started following links about the FPO and OVP, and following readers' comments. I saw that Daham statt Islam on a Poster somewhere and it stuck (I thought Daham a dialectical rendering of "die Heimat"--so our Austrian Christian volkish culture over Islam).  I think I saw "Wir saubern Graz!" too--an Austrian version of drain the swamp, with maybe some ethnic cleansing overtones.  

Now I am thinking maybe a Trump-Hapsburg union might not be the best thing for the world.   

Oh well allright. I could respond with a million words to all that... I decided to take an approach that - at least finally - might be of interest. that aspect would be immigration. It's probably the biggest topic around here, and the most dividing one.

Let me first give you my take. I want to help every poor soul that needs to flee death and destruction - and would probably even like to help those that "just" flee economic disaster. 
On the other hand. I know that if we let everyone in, our country's wealth will vanish. We're 8 million, we can't possibly take care of 8 million refugees without sharply declining so that people would start to flee from here. It's just how it is. Waaay earlier the right wing will take over government for people simply wouldn't be on board as soon as their or the country's wealth vanishes. AND I do want to help, I do not want to help when I have to give up too much of my own standard. I want every Music CD back that I lend someone, I can't possibly be fine with sharing half my stuff with others, humans don't roll that way and I certainly don't.
Additionally. As soon as crime indeed goes up because of refugees (it doesn't), as soon as religiously motivated violence or disrepect goes up, I'm all for restrictions. Poor souls, being understanding, all that be fine, but there's a price I'm not willing to pay for helping.

Reasonable? Sensible? I think so. Thing is, when I say that here, a vast majority of the leftist spectrum already condemns me, calls me an egomaniac, an arsehole, a covered right-winger, a fascist. No discussion possible, I'm out, not to b3e respected any longer. THAT is also one part of the divide that gets neglected here. The left wing might be on the "right" side, but they are self-righteous, hateful, distort arguments and facts the same way the right wing does, albeit out of more noble motives (I believe so).

So more and more people are actually driven to the "other" side because they are rightfully disgusted to be called Nazi and whatnot because they are in favour of capping immigration. That's the divide we live in - it's the loss of people who support some kind of middle ground here. You're with us or you're the enemy.

Now the right wing is worse (my way personal stance) and has disgusting extremes that get more and more popular, "no one"... is more disgusted than I am, I described that someplace else once. The biggest task in this situation would be to fight the divide, to talk to "the other side", to find middle ground.... but that is almost impossible, for both sides despise the middle ground, and people do not talk to each other, they just despise each other, and it's getting worse in time.

Does that have something to do with the US? I believe so. I think you might be at the beginning of a development we're already deep in, and I think you really need to address that. Don't become Austria, it's a message I would address to both sides, D or R, Trumpist or Hillarist, left or right. Once the divide is too deep, it seems to get impossible to ever build a bridge and unite as a nation.

Well, that's the response I chose to give here.

Now what you mentioned, ethnic cleansing overtones...? No kidding. That's how it developed, and the sad thing is that no one is actually too indignant anymore, we just got so used to hate speech, it's hardly news anymore.
And "daham" just means "at home" in Austrian slang.