Russians move SRBMs to Kaliningrad

[Dill]

(12-16-2016, 09:15 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: I suspect we have been highly active in cyber-attacks throughout the world during the past decade. Also, I suspect we are probably much more adept at it than almost anyone else, because you don't hear about us getting caught. Something that the CIA has been really good at during the past 55-60 years has been enacting regime changes and fomenting rebellion in other countries. We do it regularly. And in the past couple of decades, we have done it without leaving much of a footprint. I have no doubt we have been supporting Putin-opposition in Russia since the George Dubya Admin. 

Some might ask why should we get to do that and still get mad when other countries do it to us? The answer is simple. Because we are America, damn it. You don't get to pick out leaders for us. I don't wave the flag around blindly often. Other countries picking our leaders will bring that out in me. It is pretty simple: "Screw what we have done. YOU don't get to do that to US."

The previous reference to "footprint" brings up something else in my mind: For a former KGB bigshot, Putin has not been overly concerned about leaving footprints. In fact, it is almost like he wanted publicity for Russia's actions, that he wants a reaction. The Obama Admin generally has not provided that for him. If someone wanted to know what we are doing in response to Russian actions over the past 20 years  (or any other nation, for that matter), what is the answer? We don't know. A common thread throughout successive Administrations is that we don't "kiss and tell". All of our admins since WWII have followed this wisdom. I am hoping the current admin continues that.

But back to the "footprint". Putin is acting out more because of the sanctions. They are having an impact. Therefore, they should stay until we get what what we want. 

We already have a Patriot battery in Poland, as I understand. And it really irks Putin. We just keep it there.

As for NATO, I actually agree with Trump on one thing: the European nations need to do more. It needs to be beefed up, but not necessarily with our troops and money. Some suspect that his overtures to have the U.S. leave NATO is just a whip to get the European countries to do more for their own defense. If so, I'm behind it. 

Thanks for taking a stab at this. I hadn't thought the sanctions might be pushing Putin out there.

I don't think Patriots balance scuds. Patriots just shoot stuff out of the air. SRBMs carry payloads. 

But sanctions and "irky" Patriots might help explain Putin's aggressive behavior. In a funny way he kind of reminds me of Trump now, more ready to break  precedent and protocol now than 15 years ago, angry and feeling slighted. I guess the trick is to try and understand how all this looks from Putin's side.

As far as NATO goes, the Germans, Czechs and British went all the way to Afghanistan with the US and stayed the distance. That was not easy for them to do.  They paid a price in blood.  When our NATO partners signed on, they expected protection from an aggressive neighbor, not traveling to the other side of the world to fight in service of the last remaining super power.

As far as Nato allies paying more, I 'd like to know better how paying or not paying affects US leverage over European politics.  I do agree a stronger Putin strengthens NATO, and makes it indispensable now. Many Europeans DID NOT like supporting the US in Afghanistan, but do see Putin as a direct or potential threat.

I am not sure Trump thinks NATO indispensable, though. He has said such crazy things about our Pacific Alliances. But since he didn't know what he was talking about then, I imagine he'll listen to Maddog or someone he respects from now on. I see an interval between his saying crazy things which disturb our allies and then actually implementing policies which distress them. In that interval some advisors have the power to dissuade him from really dangerous moves.  But I fear this may only work in some areas--East Asia yes, Israel-Palestine Mexico no.