01-20-2017, 03:53 PM
(01-20-2017, 02:08 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Yes I have and Know what that means, can't name all groups atm, but I know most of the factions involved are usually Sunni, Kurds, Shite, Shia and maybe another?
It basically boils down to Sunni vs. Shite. What do you think is going on now? A proxy war pitting Sunni vs. Shite. Saudi Arabia on one side. Iran on the other.
Quote:Which is why I said we shouldn't leave.
All groups need to feel like they are a part of the new democratic government or else it just won't work.
The new government was fomenting the sectarian violence.
Quote:Yes I know they were different groups, I was looking at Timelines for the war in general.
The Bombings happened a lot after the initial attack.
The bombing began as early as the late spring/early summer of 2003. Just got worse from there. Thanks in large part to Paul Bremer. We had KIAs from IEDs before we even reached Bagdad. We had bombings going on the same time the Jessica Lynch fairytale was being told. I think it is laughable someone would suggest the bombing started later.
Quote:Quick point. Thanks for taking the time to respond in a non-condescending and informative manner.
1. Agreed, ISIS wasn't on our intel in 2011.
They were. They just had a different name.
Quote:2. Yes and no, the wrong people wanted us out, the people that wanted freedom didn't. There was even a poll that showed that 51% of Iraqi's wanted the US military presence to stay.
It was almost universal the Iraqi people wanted us to leave. Right after we arrived in Bagdad they were like, "Thanks for coming. Now get out."
Quote:3. I know he's not absolute, but yanking the soldiers out in October vs December would've given more time for both sides to reach a better agreement. I also know he didn't start the war, but he should've been adamant that we make sure the new government has a chance to succeed. Most likely Congress would've went along.
You can continue to negotiate a new status of forces agreement while you withdraw troops. You just can't withdraw troops overnight or in the last month of an agreement. We don't have the logistics to wait until the last moment. Let's assume for a second your timeline is right, what would be the purpose of withdrawing troops in October vs. December? To give the Iraqi government an ultimatum to sign the new status of forces agreement before you lose your security blanket we are providing.
Quote:On your last point about how many more American's would've died, no idea, but we know that almost 40k Iraqi Civilians have died since we left and ISIL/ISIS gained control. Now what is the price of those Iraqi Civilians vs 1 US Soldier?
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
I'd rather we not continue arguing about it, and that I hope we have learned a valuable lesson about invading other countries that you must also have a solid rebuilding/exit plan. But unfortunately, I doubt we will.
So you're telling me more Iraq civilians died as a result of the US invasion rather than the US withdrawal. Are you arguing for or against ISIS? Because it seems like you just became the head of their recruiting department.
