01-30-2017, 06:04 PM
(01-30-2017, 05:35 PM)xxlt Wrote: Longest continuous (not contiguous, assume that was a typo) democracy seems hardly relevant at less than 2.5 centuries - that is not a long time although you seem to view it as an eternity (note the Union almost didn't make it to 100 - see The US Civil War for more on that).
An eternity? No. A very significant amount of time? Absolutely. What almost happened doesn't matter at all, what did, does. And yes, it was a typo.
Quote:I would point out the US has a strong militaristic bent (e.g. spends ca as much as the next ten nations combined per annum on armaments, since WW II has invaded Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (twice) and those are just the "big" military actions, plus we have funneled arms and covertly and overtly supported wars all over the world - so pretty militaristic).
We did not invade N. Korea, we responded to an invasion by North Korea. We did not invade North Vietnam, we responded to an invasion by North Vietnam. We did not invade Iraq, the first time, we responded to an invasion by Iraq. The second Iraq war is the biggest blunder in US history, I've never stated anything other than that opinion. Regardless, there is no comparison between the military as it is viewed in this country and how it was viewed in Imperial Prussia. The military was absolutely worshipped in the Kaiser's Germany, the military as recently as 40 years or so ago was reviled in this country by many.
Quote:Complete economic collapse in Germany in the 1930's coincided with complete economic collapse here. Interestingly, we just had another significant collapse (or did you forget about the Great Recession?) and it wasn't our only post WW II dip while Germany's economy has been pretty solid post WW II. So, there's your economic parallels.
Careful, you're making my point for me. Why, under similar economic circumstances did American democracy survive and the Weimer Republic vanish?
Quote:Political chaos in Germany you cited compares well to the, what's that word everyone uses to describe what is going on today in DC? Oh yeah, dysfunction. Winner of popular vote by 5 million loses Presidency because 80,000 people scattered over three states voted for the loser of the election's popular vote. Nothing chaotic about that. War in the streets. Trump and Bannon love to talk about the carnage in the streets so they seem to see a parallel there even if you and I don't.
Not even close. Germany saw open warfare in the streets between the SA and the communists. The closest comparison in US history were the strike busting riots. Mind you, the political warfare in Germany encompassed the entire country, no area was immune. What's going on in our government now is not even remotely comparable.
Quote:Did Germany lack a criminal justice system in 1933?
They lacked a government thought of as legitimate. The criminal justice system is an extension of the government.
Quote:Were they locking up more of their population than any country on earth? I am just asking. Here is in the freest country in the world, we lock em up. Except for "her." There's a big broken campaign promise that has Trump supporters who chanted at rallies feeling betrayed and like this is chaos. Meanwhile his executive orders have millions more - including the descendants of immigrants (most of the country) and many members of the press corps and many intellectuals feeling things are chaotic.
How the criminal justice system functions is less important than the populace having faith in it. Sure, there is a significant portion of our population that takes issue with the system as it currently exists. There are more who do not.
Quote:So, you don't see parallels, and that is cool, but I still do.
There are some, but they are weak and tenuous. I also firmly believe that the comparison is a harmful one for the exact same reason. The left is fast becoming "the boy who cried Nazi".
(01-30-2017, 05:42 PM)xxlt Wrote: A huge segment of the population didn't want either. I heard a handful of Hillary supporters cite policy positions or her career in politics as a plus, but most just said, "I hate her, but he's an asshole and I hate him more." Same with his supporters but even more so. I heard almost none cite a Trump policy they supported, but heard them saying, "I hate her, but she is a ***** and I don't trust her."
So, whoever won the election, it would have been a huge mistake for him or her to assume he or she had a mandate or to think "a huge segment" supported his or her policies. I think almost without question the majority of Americans to the tune or upwards or 80% did not want either of them to be President.
On this we agree, neither candidate would have had a mandate, but quite honestly a mandate is just a word used to bully your opponents into not opposing your agenda. Trump won, he's implementing the policies he ran on. Quite honestly the only surprise for people should be that a politician actually followed through on multiple campaign promises within nine days of taking office.
