So, in a big nutshell. (aka jump!)

[hollodero]

(02-18-2017, 01:59 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL Hollo, when are you going to stop mincing words and tell us what you REALLY think about Trump??

Sorry to hear you are reducing your time with us.  One last comment though, before you sidle off.

I won't leave for good though. So no biggie, but more of a justification to sum things up and give an honest outsiders opinion.

(02-18-2017, 01:59 PM)Dill Wrote: I think you may be missing something about the whole Trump phenomenon. Most of the world and most of America see the lies and incompetence.  But NOT ALL of America sees a problem. 

But they have to come around at some point. Trump is Trump, what actually really shocks me is the republican party. They are supposed to be the patriots, but they more seem like just the anti-liberal fighters who gladly throw the country under the bus if only the liberals are under that bus, too. Not only neutered, but at this point outright treacherous by not stepping in and letting a stupid gloating manbaby with omnipotence phantasies make the decisions based on his daily mood and how much praise others have for him. Who called the media enemy of the people, for Christs sake, except for FOX and Rush Limbaugh of all people. They say the world laughed at Obama, but in reality the world laughs and laughs right now about Trump (a scared laugh that is). And about you not doing anything about it. Your country loses so much respect on a daily basis, you're probably not even aware of that. (Or don't care, which is fair enough.)

As for the people, the anti-liberal thing goes to extraordinary lengths, as I said. I will say stuff you can't say, that at this point I feel for many it's the result of intellectual envy. Some team red people feel belittled by team blue because of an inferiority complex. Not saying they are all dumb (although many are, no sugercoating), some here go to incredible constructs af alternative logic to defend Trump that show a sharp intelligence - just not so sharp party-free common sense. But they are so easily offended and turn so hostile so quickly, get trapped in logical conundrums because of fundamental rejection of anything even remotely blue leaning. And it hurts to see because these are not stupid people. Although always implying one might think that. When in fact I just think they are incredibly dense people that mastered the craft of self-induced brainwashing and refuse to see it. If they just saw what is there, they would make such an easy jump (at least to Pence :) ) that would really earn them nothing but respect. But nope, they go down with the captain as appreciation that he is at least not blue. Which leads to the roots, the system, the fundamental flaws and what was already said.

(02-18-2017, 01:59 PM)Dill Wrote: We have Trump because there is an effective plurality of Trump voters who DO NOT see a pathological incompetent making uniformed misstep after uninformed misstep, exactly as Hillary and some Republicans warned us. They believe him a much more trustworthy guide than the MSM who has begun to pull back jobs from abroad and drain the swamp.

lol yeah, with Goldman Sachs guys and such. As if they hadn't caused the problem in the first place. That is one of the amazing things, how people in all seriousness could evoke that old joke of the fat sheep being less corrupt. Which is blatantly illogical.
In general you've reached a point where truth, logic and consistency has become leftist ideology.
Hence, as a society and a country you failed and continue failing the intelligence test. No offense, my country does that all the time. I just hope that there are 100.000 people from abroad and with no ties to a certain political agenda (I was called "liberal", which is amazing, as if I would mind about US parties or US labels in the first place) that keep telling you again and again, so finally these voices are heard.

(02-18-2017, 01:59 PM)Dill Wrote: Talking directly with the president of Taiwan, questioning the value of NATO, Telling off the press and firing state department workers without ready replacements, challenging the veracity of the CIA, and resetting with Russia all makes sense to people who don't know much about how government actually works.

It goes completely unregistered that highly respected Generals Harward and Petraeus (who are definitely NOT MSM liberals) and others will not tie their careers to a chaotic administration.  Fox news has been telling them all along that the MSM is "biased" and now the president acknowledges that. FINALLY someone in a leadership position admits millions of illegals vote for Democrats.  They embrace confusion over every issue from evolution and global warming to whether Hillary really was involved in child trafficking. If their knows is fake news then it's all fake news and you just trust whom you want to.

On a closing note, I am happy to see you are edging away from the "both sides are equally partisan" nonsense which neuters so much necessary critique of Trump's party.

Petraeus was the one who gave information to his love affair, right? He might have other reasons, then. Harward, that counts.
And I agree, many probably don't see the lies and misinformations because these misinformations are what they hear every day on the only news networks they watch. But that cannot be 50%+ people. (Maybe the hope really lies in those who didn't vote at all.) And - the other side is not completely free of that phenomena, too.
Not that I want to force an equivalency, though. FOX is not like CNN, only conservative instead of liberal. That doesn't stand an honest evaluation. False equivalencies  I always was opposed to "Obama was just the same, did just the same, there's no difference" stuff. Trump aims for a fact-free opinion dictate, called the media the enemy of the people and tries to force them to come around and bend over. Obama never did that. That can't be what people really want. Unless you're a partisan hack that needs to become the patriotic hack again. White House people leak left and right to show what an incompetent man-child is doing - they do it out of utter despair, I feel. Russia is fake news. As if, Jeez. Sure, I have to "come around" because this is just utterly stupid, and people swallowing that BS because fake news and liberal tears and stuff are completely trapped in an alternative reality. I never thought that to be possible. Can't possibly give a fair evaluation that includes equality here.

I am also opposed to give the other side the get free of shame card. Many problems are home-made, like media being influenced by interest groups and subjected to the profit motive, and the claim of total moral superiority and thematic leadership and all that. Rigging the nomination against Bernie is a historically awful move. Hillary has her merits for sure, but she was a bad candidate. But the major flaw is not one side or the other, but your system, as I said Trump basically won because it just was time for a red guy again. Talking about flaws, the finger-pointing to the other side is not the solution, the finger-pointing to the two-party system is. But I can make this point over and over, it always ends up with debating Trump vs. liberals.