European Muslim Hate Poll

[Dill]

(02-20-2017, 06:47 PM)hollodero Wrote: I agree with most parts. Wahabism was still more of a sect that legitimized a war to unite the peninsula. Islam, compared to Christianity, was always more political ideology and not just core belief alone.
I see a "problem" if you will in the fact Islam as a whole never had an Enlightenment/secularisation period, and I don't entirely blame Europe or the US for that. To some part, sure.

A detail I disagree on, Jordan is not wahabistic because it's a hashemite state, the hashemites being the enemies of the Saud clan in the younger Arab history. They were the ones that got kicked ouf of Mekka by wahabist Sauds, hence historically no big fans there.

The rest is fine with me. 

Well I take your point about the Hashemite rulers. I had not considered that angle. But I don't think that can be a major factor--though perhaps a factor--in hindering the spread of Wahabism. Iraq was Hashemite, yet turned out to be very susceptible to Wahabism or Wahabist-inflected politics--but after the US invasion.  I think the reason Jordan is less susceptible at the moment is simply because there is less political unrest and less insecurity. Also, there is still very much the sense that Jordan is its own country, not controlled by Western interests.

I agree with you about the Enlightenment/secularization problem, which is why I say we don't find the explanation of contemporary Islamist behavior Bill-Maher-style by looking at the Koran or Hadith or whatever text is proffered as the "clue."

Our Enlightenment was in great part a result of the collective European exhaustion with religious wars (80 years war, 30 years war, English Civil War) which promised little more than the utter destruction of all sides, though in the U.S. at least the Enlightenment is often represented as the result of philosophers persuading people to be nicer and, paradoxically, people hewing more closely to the message of Jesus.

That revisionist history may be one reason why people enjoy comparing religious texts to "prove" that Islam is somehow essentially different from Christianity when it comes to lethal, missionary conquest. They believe the US and Europe became tolerant because Christianity directly taught tolerance, rather than (as is in fact the case) because it did not.